Black Helicopter on Bluff Creek Bigfoot Film Site! Giant Salamander Found! Huge Rockslide Blocks Road to Louse Camp! And More News...

Over the weekend of June 26-28th "Crazy" Ian and yours truly, the Bigfoot Bookman, traveled up to Bluff Creek to investigate the Patterson-Gimlin bigfoot film timeline and film site. Many strange occurrences were encountered along the way, including the sighting of one of the largest black widow spiders ever seen in Ian's SUV. Unfortunately, those hundreds of cute baby spiders that had hatched from their egg sacks on the way up to camp were suddenly NOT so cute. The truck will have to be fumigated.

After a stop at the desolate Aikins Creek Camp-ground we headed up to Fish Lake for the night. It was crowded, and the only wood knocks and vocalizations heard were from the homo sapiens infesting the place over raucous campfires. The road up was perfect, save for a little dusting from this winter's mudslides. The lake, despite the crowds, was wonderful, half-covered in lily pads, the other half with fishing boats.

[Images, turnoff, 16 mi. up the G-O Road]

Having survived the spiders and humans, we headed down to the Orleans diner, and then up to the film site. Along the well-graded (compared to past years) 12N13, one of our cars (a Volkswagen Golf--NOT recommended!) lost its oil pan. Undaunted, we made our way down the "K-Spur" (count the pull-off spurs from 12N12, three on the right, one on the left, and the "K" is the fourth right, head downhill, not sideways). This rugged, often wretched, road is not to be traversed save in a truck with high clearance, preferably 4WD, and one that you don't mind getting all scratched up. The rockslide and marsh mud at the bottom were easily traversable That said, it was easy! But get the book-bound USFS topo atlas.

BLACK HELI-
COPTERS! Yes, it was just like something from the Art Bell Show, or a paranoid right-wing conspiracy. Immediately upon arriving at the creekside we were buzzed twice by a black, apparently unmarked black helicopter. What strange things could the Men-in-Black be up to on the P-G Film Site??? After observing us it circled back and actually landed on the gravel bar on the west end, more or less where the Patterson film begins. Checking ourselves for anything illegal, we headed down through the bracken forest to the site a few hundred yards to below to the east.

Down there we met several guys who were not space aliens or covert agents, but from National Geographic's TV division. They were filming the site and scanning the topography of the environs to document and confirm the location. Look for their upcoming Bigfoot documentary to contain a first-generation copy of the film scanned at Patty Patterson's home in Yakima, WA. Each frame has been scanned at mega-high resolution, uncropped. They were not exactly sure they had the exact site located, as they had two GPS coordinates. Investigation, though, found pink plastic tape markers pretty much exactly at the start and finish of the film creature's course. They asked what we thought, and seemed well enough convinced of the Titmus-Dahinden-Perez connection for locating the film, not to mention the word of Bobo Fay and other next-generation squatchers. An aside mentioning of M.K. Davis' downstream location theory was not, however, appreciated.

"Crazy" and I recon-
noitered the area, upstream and downstream, and were able to get a good feeling of the possible track course, despite the amazingly thick alders and overgrown understory now covering the once nearly barren sand bar. (Time for another flood?) Problematic, however, is that an unobstructed view of the background trees is not fully possible, and several landslides on the north side have taken out many of the potential identifying older trees.


Having recently been privy to a report of a cryptid (mythical?) GIANT SALAMANDER seen by M.K. Davis while guided by Don Monroe, we tended to have our eyes out for such a thing. This sighting was in a pool in Bluff Creek right around where Notice Creek enters it, near Louse Camp. M.K. said it was around three feet long!



As we proceeded downstream in rubber boots, under and around tremendous knots of wood bracken, roots and trunks, we came to a small shore-side pool where something was seen. Looking closer it was about a foot long. It was a Giant Salamander, for sure. Having once caught a terrestrial Pacific Giant Salamander, I tried to grab this one; but it was amazingly fleet, and swam away rapidly like a fish. We obtained photographs, and noted small gill fans at the sides of its head.

This was an aquatic salamander in a neotenic state. Check this species out on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Giant_Salamander. Our guy appears to have been one of these, a sub-species: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Giant_Salamander.

Or... could it be just an infant state of the REAL BIG ONE that M.K. saw, and that has been told of in legend? Many believe these giant ones DO exist here, much as they do in Asia.
For size reference that is a fairly large alder leaf above, and the creature is several inches deeper down in the water. [Image: "Crazy" Ian]

As the day waned we headed down 12N13 toward Louse Camp for the night. However, about 1/2 a mile up from the camp there is a HUGE LANDSLIDE. So, BE FOREWARNED, take the southern Onion Mountain route to Louse.

Just around the bend from the Notice Creek drainage, this slide has covered the entire road quite deeply, with the massive collapse going all the way up to the top of the ridge, including huge boulders and many trees. Given the current state of government we seriously doubt this damage will be corrected any time soon. It would require the reinforcement of the entire mountainside, not just a plowing--it is that thick. Only an ATV could make it over that hump. If you plan to camp there you will have to walk in--no easy car camping.



IMAGES: by Steve Streufert, June 2009, save where noted. The topo map below is from Ian's cool GPS unit, which got a good signal all along the way.

After a fine night at BEAN'S CAMP, just across from the 12N13/Cedar Camp junction and down the hill a bit, we headed back to get the car towed. Amazingly, there was a cell phone signal up at the top of the film site road! This enabled Buddy's Towing to come all the way up from Willow Creek to tow us out, over sixty miles each way, over dirt, gravel, river, hill and dale. It was a fine trip! But no Bigfoot sightings were made nor evidence found. In a way, we didn't NEED that!

IMAGE: Patty cruising the Film Site, October 20th, 1967. From the publicity photo distributed originally by Roger Patterson with his book, "Abominable Snowmen of America: Do They Exist?"

If you are heading up to Bluff Creek, be sure to check with the Forest Service about road conditions. And ask the guy in the Willow Creek office to sell you a Klamath-Trinity/Six Rivers Forest Atlas, which he normally keeps hidden in his desk. He knows some great Bigfoot sighting stories, too.

Regarding the timeline: There seems to be no way P&G could have taken the rugged Bald Hills Road in the given time frame. We're with Perez on that one. Also, given that road conditions in 1967 were probably not as amenable as today, even the route through Willow Creek is problematic. It is a long drive. It is impossible to determine what their time would have been without knowing the state of the roads, the capabilities of Gimlin's truck, and not even knowing exactly which route they took to get down from the film site. These factors need to be determined. Could the roads have been BETTER in those days? Seems unlikely, save for the road going up to the filmsite from Louse Camp. On top of this, the post offices out here close at 5:00, so there is no way they could have used the Eureka USPS (assuming similar business hours, assuming Al Hodgson is right about the post office, and not the Murray Field airport being the sending site). They could have mailed it in Willow Creek, as some such as Long have suggested, but the mountain mail truck these days leaves here at 3:45. We assume a similar situation back then, but just can't be sure. The distances, too, are just too great, in our humble opinion. You can check this on Google Maps: just enter from "12N13" to Eureka, CA, the rough parameters of the trip. You'll get a result of: "102 mi – about 2 hours 43 mins." Or try this, for 12N12: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=For+Route+12N12,+CA+00049&daddr=Eureka,+CA&hl=en&geocode=&mra=ls&sll=41.10871,-123.895005&sspn=0.731548,1.487274&ie=UTF8&ll=41.097982,-123.895569&spn=0.731663,1.487274&z=10 .
How DID they do it, and get back shortly after Al Hodgson's 6:00 store closing time? WHY would they even need to fudge the timeline, if they did? There was no real urgency beyond excitement, and nothing (we assume) to hide. So, just as with the exact film site location, the timeline too has large factors of indeterminacy, even at times impossibility. What we are left with is an often conflicting bundle of stories and and later recountings, memories muddled (we all remember and see differently, and don't exactly record everything in daily life accurately for later reference) after 41 and a half years (no, I am not bunking Bob), and each book that comes out only seems to ADD further piles of inaccuracy to them! What do we know for sure, and what are we simply guessing at? Why do so many researchers differ in their conclusions about something so simple as taking a minute of footage and driving it to town? THIS needs to be analyzed. Without a clear timeline there will only be further compounding of errors, and this leaves room for debunkers to step in and call the whole damn thing a hoax. Where there are gaps in the information there is room for conspiracy theory, or dismissal.

Want to learn more about the Patterson-Gimlin bigfoot film? Visit this great site for an historical survey: http://pattersonfilm.com/. See the awesome M.K. Davis b&w stabilized version of the film on this link: http://www.bigfootencounters.com/files/mk_davis_pgf.gif.

Brief Conversations Regarding Bluff Creek and the P-G Film Site, with JOHN GREEN and PETER BYRNE; More Talk with CLIFF BARACKMAN, SEAN FRIES and DANIEL PEREZ. Preliminary Summary of Site Location Theories

BIGFOOT'S BLOG, EARLY-MID NOVEMBER 2010 EDITION

(From the Vaults of Our Vast Blog/Research Backlog, Here Comes Another One)

The PGF site and track-way location often seem like a moving needle in a very
large haystack. (Paraphrased from a statement Sean Fries made about Bigfoot.)
If you can hide a film site in here, you can surely hide a Bigfoot!

This is 

Part Two in our Preliminary Information Series

 for the upcoming blogs on our recent 

BLUFF CREEK FILM PROJECT. 

Hello All! Here is some more highly enjoyable fodder for your Bigfoot Nerdiness. This blog entry is a collection of background research and inquiries we made in regard to the location of the Patterson-Gimlin Bigfoot film site, and the history of Bluff Creek. Little did we know that this issue would generate controversy and politics; but lo! it is already coming our way. Please also see the preliminary information entry, part one, our INFORMAL INTERVIEW WITH JIM McCLARIN. Soon all will be revealed when Robert Leiterman gets through with the massive job of editing over six hours of raw video. These will be presented on BFRO-VIDEOS, the BFRO YouTube page.... soon, we promise, soon! Robert is calling these The Bluff Creek Film Project: A Journey of Rediscovery. What will follow in future blogs and these videos is US trying to discover the real site, prove it if we can, and perhaps to rule out the false ones among at least FIVE variant proposed film site locations. It ain't easy, as we weren't there in those early days; and many who were either can't seem to exactly recall, or present varying views, or have noticed upon returning to the area that it has changed beyond recognition. Crucial early witnesses such as Bob Titmus and Rene Dahinden are sadly no longer with us. We, ourselves, have been to the PGF site about 10 times now, as part of many more general Bluff Creek trips, and feel it is time to express our provisional views and opinions. Just consider what follows from that perspective, and consider the evidence we present. If you have contrary views, do feel free to contact us.

Bob Gimlin on the Bluff Creek "road," or, dirt and gravel trail. On the path
of Bigfooting destiny. Filmed by Roger Patterson.

Since we talked a lot with Mr. McClarin about the Bluff Creek creekside "road," really a logging plow, a cat trail, and then a Jeep path, here for your viewing pleasure is a decent image of BOB GIMLIN riding on that road. It is taken from the very same reel that later bears the PGF Bigfoot segment, and in fact, comes right before it on the reel (as seen in John Green's copy of the film, as shown on the BBC X-Creatures documentary), and was shot that same day, October 20th, 1967.

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A gaze seemingly from another world.

How, you might ask, can a location as famous as this become "lost"? This is the Bigfooting equivalent of losing track of where JFK was shot or, in personal terms, losing track of the house where one lived as a child. In regard to research seeking to prove whether Bigfoot really does exist as a species, this location may not be so significant--and many indeed have questioned our obsession with this site and area. What does it really matter? To us, though, it does matter--on a primary level simply because we want to feel the magic of the place; but more pervasively it is an important part of verifying the background and context of this famous film. Though many consider the PGF to be a hoax, the fact remains that it is the most compelling and undeniably vivid pieces to the Sasquatch puzzle. It has yet to be replicated, and cannot seemingly be disproved. If this is not a film of a man in a suit, then what IS it? Clearly, it is the moving image of a living creature, one not yet verified by our presumptuous and conservative Science. Therefore, anything, any little piece we may know about this film and its production, and the PLACE where it was taken, is of incredible import to the world of wildlife biology and hominology. We urge you, therefore, to read on....

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The following conversations were conducted mainly via email, though in some cases are based upon personal conversations as well.

Green in the A-and-E Bigfoot: Ancient Mysteries documentary.
Photo taken from VHS on TV, by Steven Streufert.

A BRIEF TALK WITH JOHN GREEN

We consider John Green to be the "Moses of Bigfooting." His early books clearly did more to advance the subject than anything short of the PGF itself. He did this with logic and wit, taking the subject seriously rather than sensationalizing it. If it weren't for his involvement in the field and during Onion/Blue Creek Mountain track-way finds, and his contact with Roger Patterson, there most certainly would never have been a PGF. He was one of the first researchers on the scene documenting the film site, though ultimately fellow Candian, Rene Dahinden, was the one to document it most thoroughly over time. From what we can tell, John was on the film site with Jim McClarin in 1968, then sometime around 1998 to 2000 with Bob Titmus, and finally went there in 2003 with the attendees and speakers of the International Bigfoot Symposium. Sometime before the last date the site had changed so much that Green could no longer recognize it with surety. Rather than trying to be a big shot about it, he admits this, and we find that honorable and true to his character and integrity. Green was also an original member of the Pacific Northwest Expedition into Bluff Creek in 1959.

BIGFOOT BOOKS (OUR LETTER):

"Hello again John,

Might I ask you a few brief questions? A few associates and I are going back yet again this coming weekend to Bluff Creek, our goal being to record and document a trip from Louse Camp to where we all think the PG film was filmed.

Could you tell me:

* when you were last there did you feel certain that you were on the right spot?

* if so, what signs did you see that would confirm it?

* was it upstream from the flat at the bat boxes? Or downstream, as MK Davis thinks it is?

* how far up? At the big gulch with the logjam and rootballs, or perhaps a bit farther? If down, how far?

* did you find the "big tree"?

* how far from the current creek position is it, and how much is left of it in a level state as seen in the old days?

If I send you a close-up topo map could you put your X on it? I've already asked this question of Perez, Barackman, and a traveling companion of MK, as well as many of the California BFRO guys. Al Hodgson feels that the site visited in 2003 is incorrect. I feel that your perspective on these matters would be invaluable,  especially as a new generation is moving in, and there are some wildly divergent opinions. Your reply before Friday would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Best regards, Steve, Bigfoot Books, Willow Creek"

JOHN GREEN:

"I am not certain that I was at the right spot, because I could not find the big tree. Otherwise I would have been sure, as I could only find one place where the level area in the bottom of the valley seemed sufficiently wide. If that is the right place then the creek has changed course from the one side to the other and  eroded the entire site of the action away. Keep in mind that I was just there once, in 1968, and did not try to find it again for about 30 years."

BF BOOKS: Hi again John,

This kind of thing makes me worry we will never again be sure of the place. I mean, the exact location of the film trackway.

I wonder, do you have any other photos of the film site, aside from the more common ones that one sees on the internet? What one normally sees is the thing with Jim McClarin in it. Any others, especially those documenting the trees and surroundings, would be absolutely helpful to us. We'll be up there on the 18th of this month.

I've been asking around, though you are the one I'd trust the most without Rene around anymore. I sent a similar email to Peter Byrne, but I'm not too sure of his opinion after reading the Todd Neiss account where they quickly found the film site in only 15 minutes, and supposedly found the "big tree" that no one else has yet to locate with utter confidence.

After talking to Daniel Perez about this at length, I'm not too sure that his "X" on the map really corresponds with his location of the place on the ground. Do you recall, when you were there with him in 2003, did he actually settle on a single spot? And was that upstream from the "big gulch" where the creek splits into two streams at the logjam area? His "X" on the map is upstream from that area.

Green on Blue Creek Mountain, 1967

Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated; and we would give you all the credit you deserve for it. I'll be writing about the trip on my blog, and Robert Leiterman is going to film it for presentation on the BFRO videos page on YouTube.

Thanks, and best regards, Steve, Bigfoot Books, Willow Creek

JOHN GREEN: "I have nothing further to contribute, and haven't even much recollection of the area as it was in 2003 {?}. I don't recall much about the location Dan picked out, except that it was in a wide area but there was no sign of the big tree there. If the tree had been logged there should be a stump, and if it fell down it should still be there and there should be a large hole, but nothing of either sort was found. Rene and Bob Titmus both knew how the site had been transformed through their repeated visits, but when I was down there with Bob about 10 years ago he was not able to hike in. He told us to walk the old road across the west hillside and we would be able to look down on the site, but we never saw anything recognizable and when we went down and walked back and forth along the creek we only found the one area where the level bottom of the valley was wide enough. In 1967 the creek was close to the east (?] side of the level area, but in the intervening years it had eroded its way close to the west side, so it must have washed away the actual site.

Jim McClarin or Al Hodgson might be able to help. [ED. NOTE: Excision of one sentence for reasons of privacy.] I still think the only reliable test is if someone can locate a place wide enough for what the film shows and with a big tree close by on the hillside. "

*********************************

Byrne in the A-and-E Bigfoot: Ancient Mysteries docu-
mentary. Photo from VHS on TV, by Steven Streufert.

A BRIEF CONVERSATION WITH PETER BYRNE


Peter Byrne first found a Yeti track in 1948, so he has been at this business for quiet a long time. He was involved in the Tom Slick-financed Abominable Snowman hunts of the mid-late fifties, eventually being brought over by Slick to take over the Pacific Northwest Expedition here in our Bluff Creek area. He has been one of Bigfooting's most public and recognizable figures, always presenting a striking and somewhat heroic image in his fedora, ascot tie and safari suits. He is known to have been at the PGF site in 1972, and then off and on over the years as he retired from and then re-entered the field. Even at his advanced age now, he visited the film site again just this year.

(This is fundamentally the same letter sent to Green. Below find Mr. Byrne's responses in CAPITALS.)

Hello again Peter,

Might I ask you a brief few questions? A few associates and I are going back yet again this coming weekend to Bluff Creek, our goal being to record and document a trip from Louse Camp to where we all think the PG film was filmed.

Could you tell me:

* when you were last there did you feel certain that you were on the right spot? Todd Neiss says so in his account.

* if so, what signs did you see that would confirm it? Are there photos?

PETER BYRNE: LAST THERE? LAST WEEK.

AND, SIGNS ... THE TREE GROUPINGS, ESPECIALLY ONE TREE THAT APPEARS IN THE FOOOTAGE, VERY LARGE AND OLD NOW (100 YEARS).

THERE ARE LOTS OF PHOTOS OF THIS PARTICUAR GROUP OF THREE TREES. ONE OF THE BEST IS FRAME 352 OF THE FOOTAGE.

* was it upstream from the car park flat at the bat boxes? Or downstream, as MK Davis thinks it is?

PETER BYRNE: NO. MK IS WRONG. THERE ARE TWO BAT BOXES, NOW BOTH DOWN. (VANDALS) FROM THE NORTHERN MOST OF THE TWO BOXES ONE CAN DRAW A LINE DUE (NOTE, MAGNETIC) NORTH DIRECT (ACROSS THE STERAM) TO THE LARGEST OF THE TREES. DISTANCE? ABT 100 YARDS.

* how far up? At the big gulch with the logjam and rootballs, or perhaps a bit farther? If down, how far?

* did you find the "big tree"?

PETER BYRNE: THE SAND BAR ON WHICH THE 67 FOOTAGE SUBJECT WALKS IS GONE NOW AND HAS BEEN REPLACED BY THE STREAM ITSELF. SO WHERE THE STREAM IS NOW, THAT IS WHERE THE SAND BAR WAS. THE SAND BAR YOU WILL RECALL EDGED THE HILL, IN THIS CASE THE HILL THAT RISES ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE STREAM. BUT NOTE, IN ELIMINATING THE SAND BAR (WASHING IT AWAY WITH FLOODING ETC) THE STREAM HAS NOW DUG ITSELF A 20 FOOT DEEP BED. SO THE ORIGINAL LEVEL OF THE SAND BAR, WERE IT THERE NOW, WOULD BE 20 FEET ABOVE THE WATER OF THE STREAM OR, NOW, THE SAME LEVEL ON WHICH THE BAT BOXES LIE. AGAIN, NOTE, THIS MEANS THAT THE BIG TREE AND ITS COMPANION GROUP (OF TWO) WHICH ORIGINALLY APPEARED IN THE FOOTAGE AS GROWING OUT OF THE SURFACE OF THE SAND BAR, NOW HAVE ROOT SYSTEMS 20 FEET HIGHER THAN PREVIOUSLY. ALSO FOR YOUR INTEREST SOME OF THE STUMPS (TWO ANYWAY) WHICH APPEAR IN FAME 352 ARE STILL THERE (AS OF LAST WEEK).

* how far from the current creek position is it, and how much is left of it in a level state as seen in the old days?

PETER BYRNE: IS WHAT? THE TREE? SEE ABOVE.

Also, how did you access the site in the old days?

PETER BYRNE: NEVER DID. THERE WAS NO "SITE" IN MY DAYS THERE ... 1960 THROUGH 1962, YEARS BEFORE THE FILMING. I HAVE BEEN TO THE SITE SINCE THEN MANY TIMES, FOR RESEARCH, PHOTOGRAPHY, MEASUREMENTS USING AMONG OTHER THINGS AL HODGSON'S SON RICK AS A MODEL.

If I send you a close-up topo map could you put your X on it?

PETER BYRNE: I'LL TRY. BUT ITS NOT HARD TO FIND THE SITE. ROAD 12N10H (VIA 12N10 FROM ORLEANS) [Ed. Note: Actually, it's 12N13, and 12N13H, off "Eyesee Road," the G-O Road, from Orleans.] GOES RIGHT TO IT...AND IS 4 x 4 DRIVEABLE. THE OTHER WAY IS TO GO TO LOUSE CAMP (WHICH I AM SURE YOU CAN FIND) AND WALK UP THE STREAM UNTIL YOU COME TO A LARGE (40 FEET + HIGH) ROCK OUTCROP ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE GORGE. THE SITE IS ABOUT 350 YARDS BEYOND THAT.

I've already asked this question of Perez, Barackman, and a traveling companion of MK, as well as many of the California BFRO guys. Al Hodgson feels that the site visited in 2003 is incorrect. Many area locals around here all seem to offer different locations, too. I fear that the site may soon be "lost" to posterity if we do not act. I feel that your perspective on these matters would be invaluable, especially as a new generation is moving in, and there are some wildly divergent opinions. Your reply before Friday would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

The famous Peter Byrne Photo, Al Hodgson's Print, 

given to him by Peter Byrne as a gift (it features Al's son);

photographed at Al's home, 2010, by Steven Streufert.

PETER BYRNE: I'LL ATTACH A PHOTO OF THE SITE WHICH I THINK (TOO SMALL TO SEE IT IN MY FILE) IS FROM ONE OF MY VISITS IN 1972, WHEN THE SITE WAS STILL INTACT OTHER THAN LOSING THE BIRCH TREES [Ed.: Alders and Maples, actually] SEEN IN 352.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Peter, I'm thinking about this more, and wonder:

Your location of the site across from the bat boxes implies that if you are standing at the parking area there looking north, right by the fire ring and all, the creek would probably have been flowing where you parked your truck, more or less, in order for there to be sufficient space for the sandbar and the dimensions of the film. Is that correct?

PETER BYRNE: THE ANSWER TO THIS LIES IN THE WIDTH OF THE ORIGINAL SANDBAR. THIS MAY HAVE BEEN RECORDED SOMEWHERE; I DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT IS. OR WAS. SO... TO TRY AND DETERMINE WHERE THE CREEK WAS IN OCTOBER 1967 JUST TAKE THAT MEASUREMENT, WHATEVER IT IS, AND MEASURE OUT FROM THE BASE OF THE HILL. THAT WILL GIVE YOU THE SANDBAR'S ORIGINAL LOCALTION.

The "big bend" of which Gimlin speaks would have been downstream from the camping area, and the retreat of Patty (after Titmus) would have been near that tiny creek that flows into that "big gulch" there today, which is where Murphy locates the site. Right?

PETER BYRNE: YES BECAUSE GENERALLY SPEAKING THE OLD COURSE OF THE STREAM HAS NOT CHANGED; THE BENDS, UP AND DOWN, NORTH AND SOUTH, ARE STILL THE SAME AS IN 1967.

I'm wondering if 20 feet of erosion is possible, too. Down in the gulch there seems to be some six feet of descent of the creek from the old sand on the bar, which is easily recoverable by digging one's hand down at the roots of the alder trees in there.

PETER BYRNE: LET ME ASK MY COMPANIONS OF LAST WEEK WHAT THEY THINK THE NEW DEPTH OF THE CREEK IS. I DID NOT MEASRE IT. IT MAY HAVE BEEN A BIT LESS THAN MY ROUGH EYE MEASUREMENT OF 20 FEET.

Anyway, we will definitely be checking your location. Any further tips would be of great help, especially a recent photo of the big trees.

PETER BYRNE: THE BIG TREES ARE NOW HEAVILY OBSCURED BY BRUSH AND HARD TO PHOTOGRAPH AT THIS TIME. HOWEVER, THE SINGLE BIG TREE (SEE FRAME 352) IS DISTINGUISED BY FOUR THINGS. ONE, ITS OBVIOUS AGE. TWO, ITS GREAT SIZE. THREE, ITS BARK WHICH IS HEAVILY INDENTED BY WOODPECKER HOLES. AND FOUR, ITS COMPANION TREES, AS SEEN IN THE 67 FOOTAGE AND AS SEEN IN MY PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN IN 1972 (I'LL TRY AND FIND ONE AND ATTACH IT HERE). ALSO, AS OF NOW, ITS POSITIVE DIRECTION FROM THE UPPERMOST (THE NORTHERN MOST) OF THE FALLEN BAT BOXES WHICH IS CLOSE TO (MAYBE FOUR DEGREES LESS) MAGNETIC NORTH. USE A GOOD COMPASS, STAND CLOSE TO THE EAST BANK OF THE STREAM WITH YOUR BACK TO THE UPPERMOST (NORTHERN MOST) OF THE FALLEN BAT BOXES AND TAKE A BEARING; YOU SHOULD HAVE NO TROUBLE FINDING IT.

The old map from Byrne's book,

strangely out of correspondence

with any known landscape features.

Or, was Peter keeping the location 

secret? And where is/was that bridge?
Click to Enlarge.

I asked these same questions of John Green, but he could not say at all for sure, and did not get a clear sense of where the site was when they were all there with Bob after the 2003 symposium in Willow Creek. Bob was not positive either. Daniel seemed to know, but where he was differs from the mark on the map of Dahinden. None could identify the big tree. Hence, you seem to be the only one with a positive identification, save for newcomers who were not there in the days you guys were.

PETER BYRNE: GOOD LUCK. LET ME KNOW HOW YOU DO, PB.

PS/ CANNOT IMMEDIATELY FIND THE PIX I WANT TO SEND YOU. WILL SEARCH LATER TODAY AND SEND. IT IS ONE FROM '72 THAT HAS ALL THREE TREEES IN IT.

*******

PETER BYRNE: THIS PIC (1972) SHOWS THE BIG TREE PROBABLY BEST. NOTE ITS COMPANION TREES, STILL STANDING TODAY.

STEVEN ONE LAST NOTE...

IN MY NOTES TO YOU ... MY ESTIMATION OF THE DEPTH OF THE STREAM (ITS CHANNEL DEPTH, NOT ITS WATER DEPTH) FROM THE LEVEL OF WHAT USED TO BE THE SURFACE OF THE SAND BAR, IS VISUAL ONLY; WE DID NOT MEASURE IT. NOW MY ASSOCIATES IN CONSULTATION TELL ME THAT IT IS PROBABLY LESS THAN 20 FEET; MORE LIKE 10 OR 12 FEET. OVER TO YOU.  PB

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OUR SUMMARY OF P-G FILM SITE LOCATION THEORIES:

The Heart of Bluff Creek, and Lonesome Ridge

Here are two maps of the upper Bluff Creek basin, the confines of which are known to be the area where the famous PGF was shot in 1967. However, there is much dispute as to the EXACT location. The first map is a wide view, just up from Louse Camp. The second map, not to wholly bias the answers, shows the more precise area where most believe the location is.

PGF General Consensus Site Area, Detail, MK to Barackman

In studying this so far we have found the following.

* MK Davis feels the site is 500 yards or so downstream from the "bat boxes" at the landing below the dirt road seen in map 2.

* Peter Byrne says it is is right across the creek from the nearest bat box at the bottom of the road.

* Christopher Murphy thinks the site is right at the bottom of the "big gulch" bend seen in Map 2, just east of the little creek.

* Daniel Perez was seen identifying the site and investigating just up from Murphy's location.

* Perez' BIGFOOT AT BLUFF CREEK places the site, according to Dahinden, upstream just a bit, on the second segment of sand bar, just below the "bowling alley" (where the creek juts directly north).

* Cliff Barackman (and ourselves, sometimes) believe the last choice to be correct. Associates and I are currently investigating this and documenting topography, dimensions, extant background trees, etc.

* Others, such as some locals like Al Hodgson, think it was shot WAY downstream, more towards Louse Camp. None seem to agree on this locally.

* A few speculate that it was shot up at the top of the "bowling alley," or perhaps even so far upstream and to the east as Scorpion Creek (off the maps provided here).

Weigh in: take the images and in your favorite image processing program put an "X" or arrow to the spot you favor. Any supporting reasons or evidence, text or photos, as to why you believe such would be greatly helpful to all. Note: the "bat boxes" are just to the other side of the small creek entering the gulch, past to the west where the road is shown ending on the map above. The road actually goes down past that little creek a few dozen yards, as drawn in below.

As a Preview to Upcoming Blog Entries, Here is a Sketch of
Our Preliminary Findings of the Various Site Location Theories,
with a few common landmarks. Do CLICK TO ENLARGE VIEW.

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TALKING WITH SEAN FRIES

Sean with Cliff Barackman, 2007 PGF 40th Anni-
versay Celebration. Photo by Steven Streufert.

We talked with SEAN FRIES, Bigfoot researcher from Weaverville, CA, and he told us the location of the "M.K. Davis" Film Site, with which he agreed. Sean has spent many, many days in the area around Bluff Creek and in the mountains of Trinity County around his hometown. He has maintained a somewhat independent status as a researcher, though he was for a time affiliated with NABS. He told us that he has basically retired from the field of late, after having had a close-up face to face sighting of the Creature in Question. It looked more Neanderthalian than ape-like, he told us. Sean's writing may be found as included in Who's Watching You, by Linda Coil Suchy.

Sean had been there with M.K. Davis on a hike all the way up Bluff Creek a few years earlier. The came to this spot downstream from the area most feel is the PGF site and felt it to be right, going against the general consensus of most other researchers. It is, according to Sean, 500 yards downstream from the bat boxes camp site landing, at the bottom of 12N13H. (This site has been located and confirmed by us--see our future blog entries, and in map, above.) We had this little exchange, among many others, with Sean....

SEAN FRIES: I still haven't placed it yet [the commemorative bronze plaque to be placed on the spot M.K. thinks is the correct film site], Steven but will soon. The BFRO site is BS--just look at how steep the canyon walls are there, its way too steep.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Sean, perhaps you'd like to go up there sometime? I'd just like to get your perspective on the site. I'm planning at least two Bluff trips this summer, with other BF people you would surely get along with (unaffiliated, I mean). 

It's not just BFRO that says it's upstream, but also Mr. Perez, on the word of Dahinden. And Barackman, now non-BFRO. Pretty darn convincing, no?
The associate I'm going up there with first, in fact, fairly firmly suspects that the site is downstream, as you do. So, that would be a very interesting and productive trip.

SEAN FRIES: Sure, I would be willing to go up there with you.
[Ed.--That trip hasn't happened yet. It would be nice, though, to truly verify the site and come to a collective agreement as a research community before any "official" plaque is installed.]

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TALKING WITH CLIFF BARACKMAN

Cliff Barackman presenting at the 2010 Oregon Sasquatch
Symposium. Photo by Steven Streufert

Last summer, 2009, we sought to clarify the location of the site and exact trackway, as we'd been going up there for a couple of years without any absolute certainty. In the course of this inquiry we talked with many researchers. Perhaps most helpful was CLIFF BARACKMAN, out of Portland, OR. Cliff provided this witty little synopsis for us by way of a professional biography:

"I'm entering my 17th year of field work. I've bigfooted in more than a dozen states and provinces.  I've recorded this and that.  I'm trying really hard to film one.  I have a website and blog.  I've been a guest speaker here and there.  I've done some media appearances.  You know, that sort of stuff." 
Enough said, perhaps; but we consider him one of the very best field researchers in the world. He loves to be outdoors and so, he says, he does it for the FUN. A good attitude to have when looking for the Bigfoot in a haystack. Here is the exchange we had with him, along with the mark he made on the topo map we sent him.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Howdy Cliff (and Daniel), 

I'm working on a little project trying to compare the exact locations various BFers claim as the actual PGF site. I figured I'd ask you two first. Personally, I feel I've been on the very spot Patty stood, but I find it a bit disturbing that I can't prove it.

I've looked around on BFF, for instance, and found that people believe all kinds of weird locations are the spot. When GPS coordinates are given they are nearly always different. Perhaps, if you have a photo editing software program, could you mark an "X" or draw a trackway on the most precise spot you think is accurate? It took me about two minutes in Photoshop to do my own version.

Also, if you know the locations of these I'd really be happy to know:
    * Jerry Crew's footprint find, the famous one
    * John Green and Dahinden's Bluff Creek sandbar prints
    * Onion Mountain and BCM trackways
    * MK Davis' supposed "downstream" film site location

I want to see a map of the entire Bluff Creek watershed with accurate BF sites located. This, when done, would be available freely to all in the BF community, and I think would clear up a lot of silly controversies.
Thanks so much, whatever you can do!
Best, Steve, Bigfoot Books

CLIFF BARACKMAN: Hey there.
 The pic with Wally, Derek, and I was taken at about the middle of the east/west section right before the "bowling alley" turn.  It is facing north.  The pic of the thick stuff was somewhere in the middle of the path of Patty. Good to hear from you.  Cliff

Yours Truly and Cliff, after a couple of beers, after the OSS.
Photo taken by "C.I."

[Ed.--to view Cliff's North American Bigfoot Blog entries on his trips to the PGF site and Bluff Creek use these links:

GOING BACK TO CALI,

VIDEO OF PG SITE 2010, and

BLUFF CREEK 2009.]

BIGFOOT BOOKS: [Speaking of our previous blog on the National Geographic filming crew landing on the PGF site area] Well, the helicopter had landed just past the log-jam area at the big bend just upstream from the bat box area and the alder forest next to it. On the gravel there they had markers for the GPS localities they thought were the film site. One by the helicopter on the north bank, and then another upstream a few hundred yards up, before getting to the spot you're describing. They thought that where THEY were was the actual film site. But where you guys are is a bit upstream from there, right? In your opinion or based on your information, where did Patty START walking? Does she finish walking right before the "alley" spot? 

Up across the creek from where you guys are in the picture is a fairly high bank (going north), as I recall, with some fairly thick foresty stuff in there on what feels like old river bar ground, high sand and gravel content up there. If I am correct about your location I walked around up in there last year, and got a very good "read" of the location as pretty similar to what one can recall in there of the film.

Downstream the forest is mostly alders, but up where you are, up on the raised area from the creek, there were more firs, I found. I guess the downstream part could be the very start of the film, up where you guys are in the pictures the end. But what if it all took place back away from where the creek bed is now? I got that feeling when I was up in there. In the film Patty is really pretty close to the canyon wall to the north.

And why is this even controversial? It's strange. The ground itself has moved, and the trees in the film are apparently all gone or so changed as to be unrecognizable.
Keep up the good work, on the hunt and on your blog & web site!
Best, Steve

CLIFF BARACKMAN: Hey there. We were upstream from the spot the helicopter landed.  I believe, though I could be wrong, that the spot the helicopter landed is thought to be the filmsite by Chris Murphy and a few others.  My info comes second-hand from Dahinden through Perez.  Dan showed me the map that Rene drew on pinpointing the location.  This was seconded by Bob Gimlin when he went there with Bobo.

Others, such as Byrne and MK Davis have gone to the site in recent years and thought the location was downstream from the bat boxes, but this is based on what the creekbed looks like today, not then.  As you noted, it has changed dramatically. Thanks on the kudos for my blog.  It's fun.  I like yours too. Cliff

Ed. -- and in a separate reply...

Cliff's mark on the map, just right of the Dahinden bump.

CLIFF BARACKMAN: Hi Steve, Good to hear from you. I'll help you however I can, of course.  John Green might be of more help on most of the spots you'd like to pinpoint.  I'm pretty sure I can show your the PG site and give you an indication where MK Davis' erroneous location is.

I sent back one of the maps you sent along.  I added the red dot where I believe the PG site is.

Though I've been there and could tell you if we were walking there, it's hard to pinpoint MK's spot on that other map you sent because I don't remember the creek splitting like it shows.  It's right about that spot, though. If I remember correctly, MK went there with Don Young, D-man [name edited for privacy], and Sean Fries. You probably know Sean since he lives in Weaverville [Ed.: excision].  He's gotta stop by your shop every once in a while. [Ed.: He does, indeed.]

I know this wasn't much help, but at least it's something.  Let me know if I can be of any more help to you.
Take care, Cliff.

*********************************

THE DANIEL PEREZ INFORMATION

Daniel Perez speaking at the 2007 PGF 40th Anniversary
Celebration, Willow Creek. Photo by Steven Streufert.

We have talked quite extensively with Mr. DANIEL PEREZ about this. He is definitely our favorite journalistic historian of Bigfoot/Sasquatch. Read our interview with him, linked on the upper left side of this blog. We have to say, his work is absolutely fundamental. He's been into the subject since the age of 10, and began studying it seriously when still in his teens. While we were sending off for autographs to baseball players, Perez was corresponding with all the big-name Bigfoot researchers. Hence, he bridges the gap between the early 1960s and 1970s research and the current day, via his contact and friendship with Rene Dahinden among many others.

His booklet, BIGFOOTIMES: BIGFOOT AT BLUFF CREEK is absolutely indispensible. Everyone must have it (and we have them for sale at Bigfoot Books!). We first found the general site area based upon his booklet (with some help from Bobo and Tom Yamarone), bearing the mark on the map that Rene made. Hence, the general location was without doubt preserved, thanks to the perspicacity and tenacity of Perez. Still, when first standing with Scott McClean on the very spot where it was supposed to have happened, we both still felt rather lost. We just could not see anything at all familiar in that first glance, save that it was a wild place with a winding creek in a big mountain canyon.

The location in what we are calling the General Consensus Area (see map above) ranges up and downstream a bit when we try to locate the actual track-way taken by the creature in the film. In the images below one may see that the location varies a little in presentation; and then, there are the accounts that emerged from the 2003 International Bigfoot Symposium trip up there, stating that Perez was downstream farther than the mark, indicating that the site was there rather than up at the exact marked point. Many there agreed, others disagreed. Some such as Al Hodgson felt the location was not at all correct; others felt it was off just because no familiar landmarks were readily apparent. Some simply thought it was a touch up or downstream from where the Symposium group had gathered. Later, Bob Gimlin himself, when up there with James Bobo Fay, put his seal of approval on the upper sandbar location.

PGF BIBLE, no doubt.

We asked Daniel about this, trying to clarify whether Dahinden meant the "X" or arrow on the map to indicate the beginning, middle, or end of the track-way. We also asked him about the information provided by Peter Byrne, as above. Here's the relevant exchange:

BIGFOOT BOOKS: I'd appreciate your perspective, truly. Also, I really wish we could clarify exactly what Rene meant by the mark: the start the middle or the finish of the film trackway? On the ground these things are very important, whereas on a map it looks good enough for government work.  I do not dispute the general location but rather seek the EXACT trackway path. Thing is, the X of Dahinden has to be more at the end segment, not frame 352.

DANIEL PEREZ: "Never got clarification w/ re to this from Rene. As for Peter, he is old and probably out a bit on his geography of the filmsite. dp"

Hence, though Daniel gets the location of the site correctly, the direction of Dahinden was not absolutely specific about the disposition of the course of the film subject. This is CONFIRMATION THAT DANIEL DID NOT GET THE EXACT LOCATION OF THE TRACK-WAY FROM DAHINDEN. However, they did not have commonly available GPS units in those days, and perhaps Rene felt that the mark was good enough, not knowing that there would be so much overgrowth and change in the area, leaving the location of the trackway ambiguous. Back in the days of Green, Titmus, Rene and the others, all one had to do was go there, and the site would be obvious when seeing the gravel/sand bar and the big tree in back. Now that stuff is obscured or altered. And opinions have in recent times begun to diverge. We hope to clarify all of this, so do keep up with our upcoming posts and the videos.

One last mystery remains for today. The above image is the most recent one from Daniel Perez, which he provided to us when we asked for an exact point at which Dahinden had place his mark. Note, in observing the image below, that the arrows in the two images point to two slightly different places along the creek. What is going on here? Is the site slowly moving downstream?

From Bigfoot at Bluff Creek: the arrow pointing to the UPPER sandbar.
Aerial image from 1973. USGS, as with the map below.

Another map from the Perez booklet, showing magnetic north on the compass.
The site? Also the upper sandbar. CLICK IMAGES TO ENLARGE VIEW.

Here's one more oddity: A Google Earth image found on Bigfoot Encounters, showing the "film site" downstream near the bat boxes landing. Clearly, the site is flowing downstream with the passing years!

And here, view M.K. Davis and crew on their version of the PGF site. We're not sure what the logging cable means, but we've asked MK about it. Yes, that is M.K. behind the video camera...

****************************************************

ANGRY BIGFOOT SPEAKS!

What me say, hu-man? You talk so much, hu-mans, me not want to hear another word! Me go now and grunt and howl. It more honest. It more true. Plus, it bring me Bigfoot mate.

****************************************************
This blog is copyright and all that jazz, save for occasional small elements borrowed for "research" and information or satirical purposes only, 2010, Bigfoot Books and Steven Streufert. Borrowings will be tolerated for non-commercial research purposes without the revenge of Angry Bigfoot, if notification, credit, citation and a kindly web-link are given, preferably after contacting us and saying, Hello, like a normal person would before taking a cup of salt. No serious rip-offs of our material for vulgar commercial gain will be tolerated without major BF stomping action coming down on you, hu-man.

Interview with AL HODGSON, Bigfoot Elder of Willow Creek, PART ONE

INTERVIEW WITH WILLOW CREEK'S AL HODGSON,

CONDUCTED AND TRANSCRIBED BY STEVEN STREUFERT, WITH ASSISTANCE FROM "C.I."

FEBRUARY 4th, 2010: PART ONE OF THREE.

This is the first forty minutes of an interview that lasted over two and a quarter hours. The rest will be posted here soon in two more segments.

Al Hodgson debunks the "Bluff Creek Massacre" theory, denies that Bigfoot are human, and throws one more question mark into the issue of the actual location of the P-G film site. Audio recordings are archived, lest some of you conspiracy theorists doubt the veracity of the following literal transcriptions.

Bigfoot Books and our associate and soundman "C.I." went up the hill and around the corner, about a quarter of a mile from the book shop, and visited Bigfooting elder statesman, Al Hodgson. He's lived in Willow Creek since 1933 (and was born before that!). Now in his mid-eighties, he was there on the ground when "Big Foot" went from being a local legend to an international sensation. In fact, he played an instrumental role in that crucial period of 1967, and made the phone call that brought Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin to Bluff Creek, leading to the famous filming of the creature. He was prominent as a local contact for all matters Bigfooty for decades, and participated in the early investigations of footprint finds and sightings. He knew Jerry Crew, who made the famous Bluff Creek casts of 1958, personally. As a member of the Willow Creek-China Flat Museum he was the guy who made the famed "Bigfoot Collection" wing happen, thus preserving the Bob Titmus materials and casts, and presenting other archival and historical materials in a domain accessible to the general public curious about Sasquatch evidence and history.

Images: Al in his home this February, holding the book Roger Patterson gave and inscribed to him. Below, the dedication and signature from Roger. Photos: by Steven Streufert. CLICK TO ENLARGE most images.

The discussion began as soon as we entered the front door of the Hodgson home in Willow Creek, CA, and covered some interesting ground before we could even get the recording device and microphones set up. What follows is a transcription, literally done, but with “ums” and “ahs,” “likes,” “you knows” and other extraneous bits mostly edited out for concision. We were sitting at the table for about five minutes before the first words were recorded. A discussion about the “human-ness” of Bigfoot was in progress. Sitting on the table before us are Al’s copy of Roger Patterson’s book, Do Abominable Snowmen of America Really Exist? (later to be revealed as personally inscribed by the author), a Six Rivers Forest Atlas topo book, some computer printouts of various photos from the Blue Creek Mountain film shot by Rene Dahinden in 1967 (before the Patterson-Gimlin Film/PGF was made) and an outline of the events of 1967 in the Bluff Creek and Willow Creek areas (private notes not shown to Al) as found in John Green‘s book, Sasquatch: Apes Among Us.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: I don’t want to get into any accusations about anybody in particular…. In normal fields of study we have disagreements about things that we can discuss…

AL HODGSON: Well, if you’ve got, if you can…. Yeah, right. It’s OK to disagree as long as you don’t fight, you just talk about it.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: You don’t end up hating each other, and throwing around insulting accusations back and forth.

HODGSON: I wouldn’t do that anyway. I tend to be the other way.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Try to make peace...

HODGSON: I’m not a fighter. You can get me mad enough that I WILL fight, but it’s quite a bit… (laughs).

[Banter regarding recording levels excised.]

BIGFOOT BOOKS: It gets so hot and argumentative because we don’t have the Bigfoot in front of us…

HODGSON: No. [Shakes head emphatically]

BIGFOOT BOOKS: And so one group believes Bigfoot is human, and the other one, oh, it’s an ape. And it goes from there.

HODGSON: Well, I flat don’t believe that it’s a human. I mean Dave Paulides seems to think so. I don’t think so. I can see some things that would give you the idea. I don’t think so.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: It looks like a humanoid, it stands upright, its got feet that go flat on the ground, and walks on two legs…

HODGSON: Yeah, that still doesn’t mean, that still don’t mean, it’s a hard… Until you get the beast itself, or you get some DNA, but even that, DNA might not prove it. I don’t know.

Images: Above, from Patterson's book; below, Al in the A and E Bigfoot documentary.

 BIGFOOT BOOKS: Yeah. To say it’s human you kind of have to say it acts like a human, too. There are "wild people," but they still have culture, religion….

HODGSON: But they can be tamed quite easily. I shouldn’t say "tamed," it‘s kind of a poor word….

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Like, “civilized”…?

HODGSON: Yeah, civilized, better word for it.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: And so it’s hard to imagine that if they could catch a Sasquatch, that they would be able to keep it in a King Kong cage, let alone in a classroom, or a job.

HODGSON: Oh yeah, oh yeah. Well, there’s stories how they’ve found…, and that one captured that one time up in Canada, you know….

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Back in the 1800s? Jacko?

HODGSON: Yeah. Yeah. And then there’s stories about down in Hoopa, down in the lower Klamath down there, of one interbreeding with the Indian Natives; but that’s all, I don’t know, I just don’t really agree with it. Now I’m not saying that they aren’t possibly aroused by a woman, but I don’t think it could be anything like mating with them…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Well, there’s stories about bears being the same way too, being attracted to campsites, and possibly more…

HODGSON: Well, chimpanzees are attracted to them in zoos, you know, a woman comes by and…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: It would just indicate that they are somehow similar, that we may be related to Bigfoot, in the same way that we are related to apes, but that doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily human. It may just be a different form that is like us…

HODGSON: It’s a different animal, you know; but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are….

[Banter regarding recording levels excised.]

BIGFOOT BOOKS: As far as the human thing, since we’re talking about that: It’s a major issue right now. Certain people like Dave Paulides, M.K. Davis and Bobbie Short, they're on the one side; and John Green is on the other side, more the ape crowd. It seems that these divisions have gone further than just whether it’s a human or an ape, its taken on a whole theoretical, almost political, division between the two.

HODGSON: Yeah, you’re right. And I got right in the big middle of that one, with John Green and M. K. Davis and everything, with the, that so-called "killed one up there and skinned it," you know, and all that stuff, that, I don’t know whether you know what really happened or not…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Well, that’s part of what I was hoping to ask you about, you might know some things…?

HODGSON: Well I know more than, well, I don’t know.... What happened actually, I was at both sites, and at much different times. See they, what they did, John Green and Rene Dahinden, when they took and spliced the two films together, one was made at the film site, the Patterson film site, from the Patterson film, and the other one was made on the Blue Mountain…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Blue Creek Mountain?

Images: Blue Creek Mountain track, above; John Green's book; a photo taken by Green on Onion Mountain, from the trackway find that preceded the one on BCM by a few days (Onion Mountain is on the same road, right next to BCM).

HODGSON: Yeah, Blue Creek Mountain. It was there. And they completely went way up there. They put together [the films], and they were like six weeks apart. And they spliced them together so that you would have more to show people, so they took this film across…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Like, for documentary presentations…

HODGSON: Yeah, across Canada, they took this and showed it across Canada, and then somehow after, what happened was, I believe, after Rene died somehow they got a hold of a copy of that film that they took across which had those on it. And so when they saw that immediately they said, there’s a backhoe in there, they killed one. M.K. says they can see where they skinned one, and…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: I have pictures here, you know, from M. K…. But also, Dave Paulides was saying that they found this film in the archives of Ray Crowe, in the Western Bigfoot Society archives, that was an "uncut," earlier version of the Patterson film that had bits that "no one had seen before." And, you know, acting as if these were the same film, rather than spliced together for a documentary or whatever.

HODGSON: Now that, see, is wrong. Absolutely wrong. You see, I know him [Paulides] very well, and I told him so. I told him. I told M.K., and I told Paulides, they’re wrong. Two different sites! I said, for one thing that backhoe has a very big footprint. You can’t dig a hole with that and mess around there with a backhoe because it leaves a lot of tracks, and you can see where it dug and everything else. OK? I went up there with John Green and some other people that I don’t remember. John Green’s the only one I know for sure went up there. Anyway, we went up there the next spring…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: After the film was shot, the Patterson film?

HODGSON: Yeah, right, right. About, I think, it was about June.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Yeah, that agrees with what John Green says in his book. He didn’t make it down there until the following summer, because of the roads being closed and the snow…

HODGSON: Ah yeah, sure… But anyway, we went up there, and John had every slide, every… of the… part of the film, he had a slide made of every one of ‘em, every frame. And he would, told me, I was out in front of him, and this time all the leaves from the fall had fell and covered the whole thing, and it hadn’t washed through there. The river, it never got a hold of it, never had any real high water.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Ah yeah, that sandbar sits up a bit from the creek doesn’t it?

HODGSON: That’s right. And it… Nothing got in there, OK? And he’d take that and look out through it and he’d go out to it and say, is this a right or a left, or a little further out, and he said try there, and I could feel underneath the leaves the tracks. And so we managed to go out to where he [Patterson] lost it, the end of the film, the whole way, and we could go right through there and find every track. Now, darned, it made quite a mess, but you couldn’t but know it was there, we knew we had the right place because you could tell a knot on a tree, or something to guide us by, so we knew we had the right place. And there was no indication of anything out of place, anything being buried, no indication of any equipment being in there.

Images: Al's copy of Rogers book. Below, Bob Gimlin at the Yakima Bigfoot Round-Up, 2009. Photos: by Steven Streufert.

 

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Well Bob Gimlin has said--and this is being quoted by M.K. and his associate people--Gimlin had said there was no way they could get heavy equipment in there save with a helicopter.

HODGSON: No, no, there still isn’t.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: But others claim that in fact there was a road right next to the creek. They have this picture with the truck in the back and it’s got logs on it. I don’t know if I have that with me.

HODGSON: Well you see that… [Picture is retrieved and shown to Al]

BIGFOOT BOOKS: See they’re claiming that this is the Patterson-Gimlin site, but that’s from the film that was taken by Rene Dahinden on the Blue Creek Mountain trip.

HODGSON: That’s correct, because there’s the dog, the dog was with us. And that, looks like John.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: That’s John Green. That’s known… And they claim this guy is Dale Moffit, the guy from Canada, who came down with John, and he’s acting as the dog handler, apparently.

HODGSON: Well, you know…They had, there was four of them, I think. OK. I’ve gotta stop and think. There was John, the dog handler, Rene, and um… Yeah that’s it, that is three, I guess…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Well, there’s Rene taking the film there, and there’s John Green in the middle, and that’s Dale Moffit in the white t-shirt, and then this guy is one of the central questions…

HODGSON: I don’t know… who could that be…? [Gets up to retrieve a magnifying glass]

BIGFOOT BOOKS: It’s a fairly poor image, taken off of the internet.

HODGSON: OK, let me turn that light on.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: That’s the best print I could get of that image.

Images: film taken by Rene Dahinden, from John Green's archives, lettering applied by MK Davis.

HODGSON: Yeah. I can’t, I thought this might help but it don’t.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: What about the one on the other side there?

HODGSON: Nah, it almost makes it worse.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: This image here is the same guy, and you can see who they are claiming it is with the lettering above it there.

HODGSON: Well, see, for some reason or other it blurs it.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: But you can see who they are claiming it is there…?

HODGSON: Well, it isn’t Bob Titmus, I know that.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: And this is the Bob Titmus from 1963 in Hyampom. [Al is shown another photo]

HODGSON: Well, you see, I was the one that caused this about Titmus. See I was mistaken, I had forgotten that it was Dahinden that went with him, not Bob Titmus.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: And maybe they [MK, in an interview he did with Al] didn’t clarify which trip it was from, perhaps?

HODGSON: Well, I dunno, but this is, Bob wasn’t on this trip, there’s no doubt about it.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: I understood that Bob Titmus was living in Canada at the time…

HODGSON: He was, I believe he was.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Are you aware of when he moved from Redding, or Anderson?

HODGSON: Well, I’m not sure, I just don’t know, he may have, but I don’t remember. But he went up there, Bob went up there a long time, in fact he explored some of the offshore islands and he had casts from up there…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Up near Vancouver?

HODGSON: Yeah, but his boat burned and he lost all of the casts.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Yeah, that’s a sad story, and all his research materials and stuff, too. But this is the guy who was actually there. [Al is shown “the pilot photo”] Would you say that looks like Bob Titmus there?

HODGSON: No, no that doesn’t look like Bob Titmus to me, no.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: That’s a picture from 1967, up on Blue Creek Mountain.

HODGSON: No, that’s just too... no.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Well you can probably see that this is the same guy [the pilot], perhaps, based on his shirt rolled up and the pants?

HODGSON: Yeah, I would agree.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: That’s definitely not Bob Titmus in there. I mean, this is definitely a younger man that the Bob Titmus from 1963 on the other side there.

HODGSON: And he looks taller than Bob, Bob wasn’t that tall of a man.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: When you last saw Bob Titmus what year was that?

HODGSON: [Yawns] Hmmmmm.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: You probably knew him pretty well.

HODGSON: I knew him fairly well, but I don’t remember when was the last time I saw him.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: You think it might have been after the film was made here, by Patterson and Gimlin? Because Bob Titmus was said to have come down like, what was it, like ten days after…

C.I.: Very soon afterwards, he came in…

HODGSON: He came down when, I think, John called him, or told him what’s going on, and he came down. The fact is Bob went up there afterwards, a couple of weeks afterwards, and got casts of some of the tracks he hadn’t cast.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Yeah, and Lyle Laverty, did you know him? He was one of the first guys who was on the site, he was working up there, and a few of the guys who were working on the projects up there…. But then the first actual (researcher)…. And Jim McClarin got up there, I guess, too?

Images: Above and below--archival, historical: Bob Titmus, the Pilot, Lyle Laverty's famous Bluff Creek film site photo, and Rene Dahinden with McClarin's Willow Creek Oh-Mah statue, still extant on the Hwy. 299/Hwy. 96 junction..

HODGSON: Yeah, Jim did, too, and Jim of course is up in New Hampshire now, I think.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: He was down in Sacramento, in politics, wasn’t he?

HODGSON: He was a strange guy, a nice guy, but he was, what Unitarian or something like that, but he’s little bit different. I don’t know what to say about him or anybody. Now he was, at that time, he was carving that statue at Soldier Park. And he at that time he was carving it and he was mad at himself because went up and was  hiking in the [Trinity] Alps or something and he came back out and found out it happened he was really mad. And so he immediately took off hitchhiking up to Yakima to see the film.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Yeah, there’s a lot of stories like that. This whole timeline of 1967 is like that, actually. I mean, I’ve got it from John Green’s book…

HODGSON: Yeah, apparently and, I don’t know, I have John Green’s book, and I haven’t read it line for line

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Nah, actually, I haven’t finished reading the whole thing myself.

HODGSON: A lot of these books I have not read completely, you know.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: But the parts that deal with Bluff Creek I’ve read those about fifteen times each.

HODGSON: Yeah. [Laughs, chuckles]

BIGFOOT BOOKS: So, you don’t remember when you last saw Bob Titmus. Did you see him after the film was made, perhaps?

HODGSON: Oh I think so, but I can’t remember when.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: He must have been down here…

HODGSON: You know I have some pictures. I’m just going to have to hunt and see if I can’t find, of Bob and John Green, and I’m not sure I have any of Dahinden…. A lot of those guys I have pictures of.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Wow, I’d love to see any of those you have. A lot of them probably have never been published or anything.

HODGSON: I understand they’re going to try to do a big deal this year for Bigfoot Days, and it might be, we may get to have all of those pictures, like the first ones of John and Bob Titmus and Rene, and even my friend [laughs, chuckles] Peter Byrne. Ah, Peter Byrne’s a bit different. I don’t know. I know he and John seemed to have a bit of a falling out.

Image: The banner used each year for Willow Creek's community event, Bigfoot Days. Photo by Steven Streufert.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: And they all seemed to hate each other….

HODGSON: Well, I don’t know what to say about that, I don’t know what to say. I’ve always thought he, ah… I call him—don’t tell anybody about this—but I call him the “Great White Hunter.”

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Yeah, I’m sure he’s heard that before because it’s out there now. Everyone refers to him as that.

HODGSON: Yeah, he always had it just so-so, he always had a tie. And I understand that the reason he had that is he had something wrong with his throat.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Ah well, he was stylish [still is!]. It gave an image to bigfooting, wearing that safari outfit and a hat and an ascot tie. It would be great to see Bigfoot Days have more focus on Bigfoot.

HODGSON: They want me to be Grand Marshall but I said, NO WAY. I’ve already been Grand Marshall twice.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: “Mr. Bigfoot”….

Images: Above and below, from the fine SASQUATCH ODYSSEY documentary. Below more, John Green on BCM trackway find, 1967, archival.

HODGSON: Get somebody else! But you know what would be great, though? I don’t know if we can do it, but… get John Green to come down there.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Yeah, that would mean something... major.

HODGSON: You’d have to take and uh, it would probably cost somebody, probably. Well, I think it would, now.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: We’d have to really get the word out. A lot of the local people probably don’t know who John Green is.

HODGSON: Yeah, well, they don’t know. But I know John well enough that I would ask him! Now, his wife is not well, so that may be a problem. And also, the man’s got plenty of money, he doesn’t necessarily need help, but  at the same time I would say it might be a nice gesture if we offered to pay for his flight down and back, you know. Now, he inherited, his father was a politician in Canada, and he inherited. Even though John had a, owned a paper, in Canada, and uh, I can’t think of what the name of it was now…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Wasn’t it the Agassiz Herald, or something? [Actually: Agassiz-Harrison Advance]

HODGSON: Yeah I can’t remember now. But anyway, John’s a good guy. I thoroughly think he’s a good, honest guy. He’s not gonna give you a bunch of malarkey.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Well, I’ve always felt the same way! I told you once before that I thought John Green was like the "Moses of Bigfooting," you know, holding the tablets but, um….

HODGSON: [Chuckles]

BIGFOOT BOOKS: …not to put him up on a pedestal. A lot of these people who believe in this “Massacre Theory” are coming out really slanderously against John Green, accusing him of lying.

HODGSON: Oh, I know that. I know! I know!

BIGFOOT BOOKS: I mean if they slaughtered a family of Bigfoot up in Bluff Creek, and buried it, then all the work that John Green did after that, all of his books, all the work of all these other guys, all of this was a lie to cover up something that happened in 1967!

HODGSON: But you see… but you know, number one: if they buried that thing in the creek, that creek is now at least ten foot, it’s graded down at least ten feet. Now if it’s buried in there we’d have found bones somewhere, a bone went down the creek, somewhere it would have showed up.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: A big, uh, big bones…

HODGSON: That’s right! We’d have found something. And the fact is it wouldn’t have taken it very long. Like I said, it’s eroded out. I was up there when they had the Symposium you could see where it eroded down, you could see where the old creekbed was, and it went down, and the reason was….

BIGFOOT BOOKS: It’s like seven feet, or like five, six, seven feet in places…

HODGSON: And some places are lower than others…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: And when you get way down in the bottom of it that gulch there…

HODGSON: And that tells you there, but how come this was? This was right after the flood, right after our ’64 flood. And they went right up the creek and logged the creek, because all of these logs were in the creek and it was blocking the creek. So a fellow the name of Blake logged that creek.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: You mean salvaging the logs that had been washed downstream?

HODGSON: Yep, and some of them had washed down that had already been cut, and everything else. So they went right up the creek and logged the creek. So the creekbed, then, was left at a level way higher than normal. So then after, as the years went by, it graded down to its original bed, or what it maybe, I think it is now. So it’s probably, I’d say it’s close to ten feet now that it’s come down. Where they say is the film site is NOT the film site. It’s not the film site.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Well, you were there in 2003, with Gimlin and Green. I was there at that Symposium, but I didn’t go up to the creek on that trip to the creek...

HODGSON: Well, I didn’t either. I was so tired by that time that I…

Images: Museum promo photo of Al in front of the Bigfoot Collection building and statue; below, a map from Barbara Wasson's book, Sasquatch Apparitions; a government topo map of Lonesome Ridge. CLICK TO ENLARGE.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Well, Chris Murphy’s told us that he was going on your estimation of where the film site was. But then I talked with Daniel Perez, and Cliff Barackman and Bobo and those guys from the BFRO, and they say no, it’s upstream further. I talk to M.K. Davis or Sean Fries from Weaverville and they say no it’s a quarter mile downstream from that car landing spot.

HODGSON: Well, I don’t know. I’m not exactly sure where it is. But I’ll tell you who does know. He was going to take me up there. Well, I don’t know if I could make it anymore. I think I could. But I, uh…. It’s a walk-in show. You’re not going to get there by driving down like they did there [at the 2003 International Bigfoot Symposium]. And what confused me now, here several years ago, was that Mark and I went up there to the film site. Well, we went up, we had to go up the creek, and that’s how we went up before. We went up the creek, from Notice Creek, we went up…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: All the way up from like Louse Camp area…

HODGSON: Yeah, yup.

C.I.: So even in the spring of 1968 the access was up, or walking up along the creek?

HODGSON: Yes, yes it was. There was no access from above.

C.I.: Right. And because you knew how well preserved the creek had  been over the winter, you could still find the footprints, and so you could be sure that there was no possible way that any heavy equipment had been moved up the creek, or… have any kind of  a mass burial or grave or…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: You would have seen the tracks on the road or something…

HODGSON: That’s correct, there was no evidence of it all the way up that creek, there was no sign. Now what confused me, we got up there, Mark and I went up the creek, we got up so far and here was a bridge. I said, we’ve gone too far, we’ve passed it. And then I find out that bridge was built afterwards. And that’s what throwed me. Now, you have to go up to that, above Notice Creek, go up to that first bridge, and get in the creek there and go up, to get to it…Now exactly whether I’d find it or not, I don’t know.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Well here’s the map here,  This is Louse Camp, Notice Creek, and here’s the spot where the film site is supposed to be right near that “R” [does not correspond with the images provided on this blog page].  That’s the spot, either down here or up here. It’s not the biggest topo map but…

[Al is shown the Six Rivers Forest Atlas, Lonesome Ridge quadrant. Some following map pondering “ums” and “hmms” and attempts to locate this bridge have been excised.]

HODGSON: There might be a bridge right here, see it shows a road here, it’s kind of a small road…

C.I.: Yeah, right, now that’s marked as 12N10, and it’s currently closed to cars, vehicles. It’s been bulldozed, berms at each end, both the north and the south. I assume there was something there, a bridge or a ford…

HODGSON: But ya know, a fellow by the name of Kenny Pugh, in Orleans is the one that says, he says I know, you’re right, it’s not where they say it is.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Remember, in 2003, I think you guys drove down off there onto this little spur [Pointing to 12N13H on the map] and got down to a parking area…

HODGSON: That’s right…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: and you probably walked up stream about less than a quarter mile or so and got to that big bend, where all of those big root balls are in the creek?

HODGSON: That must be right here, it must be that bend…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: It’s right where that “R” is there…

HODGSON: Yeah, right in there, I think you are right. But this is, in here somewhere, but I don’t know. I’m confused too, eh....

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Well it’s hard to correlate a map to the ground if you’ve been walking on the ground all your life.

HODGSON: Being in there so few times, you know what I mean? But I know that talking to Kenny he says that bridge was put in after the flood….

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Well there’s that 1958 bridge you know that’s over Notice Creek right down near Louse Camp…

HODGSON: Yep.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: But when you were up there did you feel you were at the right spot in 2003, with those guys? I heard that Gimlin didn’t necessarily recognize it too much either.

Image: the panel of speakers for the 2003 Willow Creek International Bigfoot Symposium, including Al Hodgson, Bob Gimlin and John Green (standing behind Gimlin in this photo, unfortunately).

HODGSON: I was, I didn’t think…. Even before that, there was no road to come down to the creek at that time.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Well, we’re trying to figure out…. That road was apparently built for a clear cut….

HODGSON: What was it, I think, it was a special road that came in there. They undoubtedly had a special landing there, and hauled up at that spur. Now there would be no reason to put that road in afterwards, so it had to be there before. And it wasn’t there, when the film site…. So the film site was some other place. Now, exactly where, in fact, was it even below that site, because we didn’t cross it when we went up there.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Hmmm. You mean when you walked up the first time, up the creek?

HODGSON: That’s right.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: You were with your son when you did that?

HODGSON: No, that was the second time, that was just a few years ago. The first time was John Green.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: And when you went with John Green you had to go up the creek all the way?

HODGSON: That’s right.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: But, it’s well known that the site that John Green filmed was the right one, because the trees all lined up, and he was there just months after…

HODGSON: That’s right. That’s right.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: And, you know, he had Jim McClarin walk… Were you there when he made that film with Jim McClarin walking the trackway?

HODGSON: No, I don’t think so.

Images: from John Green's film site follow-up, featuring Jim McClarin walking and superimposed with the Creature.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Hmmm. Well, I’m pretty sure that was made on that trip. Anyway, he had a camera and he was filming and was trying to compare the exact location where Roger had shot the film. And he had Jim McClarin, who was like six foot five walk in the trackway, and then he lined them up just as perfectly as he could. But it’s obvious that that’s the right film site, that he found then?

HODGSON: Are you sure it was Jim McClarin, though? [Gets up to retrieve a framed photograph]

C.I.: But he is credited in several different places with that film, it’s in several of the books....

BIGFOOT BOOKS: It’s well known to be John Green’s. But maybe he went on the trip with Al, and then he went in on another trip?

HODGSON: It’s not this one here, is it? [Returns with a framed photo of the film site.]

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Oh, well isn’t that your son there?

HODGSON: Yeah, right.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: That would be Mike…?

HODGSON: That’s was Mike, yeah, when he was going to Humboldt State, I think.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Did John Green take this photo, too?

HODGSON: No. Peter Byrne.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: I was going to say this looks like the Byrne photo. I have a copy of this on my computer. But this was the correct film site that you…

HODGSON: That is definitely the correct film site.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: And from where you were in 2003, where do you think the correct film site was?

HODGSON: It was downstream from where we were at.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Downstream???

HODGSON: I don’t know exactly where…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: You can’t quite gauge the… because you were on two different trips you don’t really know the distance between them?

HODGSON: The best thing I think is check with my friend.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: He’s still around in Orleans? In the phone book?

HODGSON: Yeah, I think so. Kenny Pugh. He’s a nice guy.

Images: Al's framed Peter Byrne photo featuring Mike Hodgson on the film site; middle, from I.C.'s GPS unit, the Bluff Creek headwaters; below, the film site seen from upstream of the "big bend." Photos, first and last: by Steven Streufert.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Well, there’s a lot of controversy over the film site, but I think that’s not as significant as a lot of these other controversies that…

HODGSON: I agree with you. But it makes a difference, though. In a way.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Well, we have a hunger just to find the right place and settle it. Before it’s too late and no one who was there can go up there and say this was the right place….

HODGSON: Well, I certainly agree with you. I agree with you. I think that’s the best bet right now, and I would love to go with you. But I don’t think I can. Ahhh… I think I can. But I don’t think my son would go with me.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Well, maybe this summer?

C.I.: The current road down from the ridge is usually in good shape for a good four wheel drive. You can get there without too much trouble. But then, it will take some bushwhacking up and down the creek to try to find the location. But it would certainly be closer, from your look at the map, be closer to start there and go downstream than to come upstream from the Notice Creek bridge.

HODGSON: Well, I don’t disagree, but you know, if you know what you’re looking for. But I would talk to Kenny Pugh. Because he’s a nice guy, he’s a bit different, but he’s a nice guy. But he was a forestry ex-, retired ex-forestry…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: So when was he at the film site, originally, in the early days? Was he up there after…

HODGSON: I honestly don’t know. He came, he was stationed here in Willow Creek for some time, and that’s how I got to know him. He was stationed for some time in Orleans, and then he retired up there, and I can’t really tell you exactly.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: It’s just like the site has changed so much from what it was then, and not just the creek but all the trees that have grown in. And my understanding of 1967 is there was a dirt road at least along the creek that they used for logging access…

HODGSON: Well, way UP from the creek. It was way above the creek.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: It wasn’t down in the creekbed?

HODGSON: Oh no.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: There was not any kind of road there? Because this picture here was supposedly taken on the sandbar just southwest of the film site, because there are trucks there. Well, maybe we’re all wrong assuming that was where this picture was taken?

HODGSON: You’re ALL wrong. This is up on Blue Creek Mountain…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Up on the ridge?

HODGSON: Up on the ridge.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: That’s not…. This is the picture with the red hands and the bodies and the…. This is the one where MK is saying there’s blood on the ground and…

HODGSON: yeah, I know…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: …the skins are lying there on the sand bar, it’s vague, you can’t tell, it looks kind of like it could be on a sandbar in the creekbed…

HODGSON: But this is not the creekbed! That’s a road right up on top of the ridge.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: A couple thousand feet at least up from there….

HODGSON: I tell you there’s a guy, if he’ll talk to you, I don’t know if he will or not. He was the one who discovered those tracks, on Blue Creek Mountain. He lives in Hoopa, he’s an Indian fella, I don’t know if he’ll talk to ya, I don’t know….

BIGFOOT BOOKS: He was there on that work crew?

HODGSON: I believe that he was the foreman on that road at that time. And he told me, Al, I was the last man out that night, and I was the first one in the next morning, and those tracks weren’t there. And it was a long ways down there if anyone had come in by foot. And it had sprinkled a little bit, and you could see there was no new tracks when he came up the hill, there were no tracks except for the tracks in this dust.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: As I understand it, maybe you would know better, the Onion Mountain Road went down to Louse Camp eventually, and then they started building the road over Blue Creek Mountain….

HODGSON: Yeah , they changed the roads all around. I don’t know how exactly they changed them, but they changed the roads all around.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: And that road was being plowed through, a new road, I think John Green’s book says it was a new road being built, and that’s why the tracks were so fresh there in the dirt.

HODGSON: A lot of things happened there. The flood had done such a number on the roads that they went in and put the roads someplace else because of slides and so forth.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: You mean the roads that went down below more?

Image: Terrain map containing the Onion Mountain to Blue Creek Mountain area, down to Louse Camp.

HODGSON: They stayed back out of the creek. Exactly how they went I don’t know. I was up there several times before that and then I was up there a few times after, but not too many.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: What’s the name of the Hupa man you said found the tracks?

HODGSON: He’s, um, now I can’t, I’m losing it here… Dud Orcutt. They call him Dud. Not Doug, “Dud,” that’s just a nickname. He has flashbacks from the Korean war, and has a tough time, so…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: But Bud Ryerson was running that show up there then…

HODGSON: Yeah, I think that was his show. He might have been subbing for someone, I don’t know.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: I have a timeline here of events from 1967.

HODGSON: Is that right?

BIGFOOT BOOKS: This is all taken from John Green’s book. He says in February of 1967 he came down with Rene Dahinden. He says they stopped to visit Roger Patterson in Yakima, and then he says they came to Willow Creek, and they heard of some recent [BF] activities, and they met Syl McCoy, in February of that year. Had you, at that point, had you met John Green? You must have met Rene Dahinden?

HODGSON: I met the both of…

BIGFOOT BOOKS: I mean, in the 1958 business, right?

HODGSON: No, ’58 I did not know all of those guys. At that time I just flat out thought it was a hoax and had nothing to do with it. [Laughs Out Loud] And so, I did not know them.

Images: Syl McCoy at Hyampom with track casts found there; an old post card of Willow Creek, part of Hodgson's Department Store is seen in the lower left corner.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: And so, you were running the store and probably got a lot of reports coming in at that time….................?

(40:38 of 2:17:11)

END OF PART ONE.
PART TWO TO FOLLOW SOON.
KEEP CHECKING BACK (or just subscribe)!
Transcribing this is an incredibly hard slog.
This is only the first THIRD or less of the interview.
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Con-texts of this blog, save for archival or historical images (fair use for research), copyright 2010, Bigfoot Books Intergalactic and Steven Streufert.

Please feel free to quote with citation and link to this blog included.

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ANGRY BIGFOOT SPEAKS!

... is still hibernating this week. 

He was mad enough last time in regard to those film guys. Were they working for Tom Biscardi, or what?

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