BIGFOOT BOOKS' STEVEN STREUFERT INTERVIEWS AND DISCUSSES SASQUATCH WITH DANIEL PEREZ, EDITOR AND INVESTIGATOR BEHIND THE BIGFOOT TIMES
Mr. Daniel Perez, of The Bigfoot Times recently mail-ordered a copy of David Paulides' Tribal Bigfoot from our shop here in Willow Creek, and it has led to this interview. It was conducted by email starting October 29th, 2009 and completed November 7th, 2009. Daniel is one of the most determined Bigfoot researchers out there, with vast historical knowledge and experience investigating the phenomenon. A subscription to his newsletter and purchase of all of his publications is highly recommended for those who want to be truly in the know. All of this may be accomplished through his website: http://bigfoottimes.net/. The site is also a blog, which contains material not in the newsletter.
Image above: The Bigfoot Times issue featuring the 2007 PGF Anniversary Celebration, with the Bigfoot Books shop in Willow Creek on the cover. CLICK IMAGES TO ENLARGE AND READ. Click the colored links to explore further.
DANIEL PEREZ: Always nice to do business with you. NOW, how about a letter to the editor of the Bigfoot Times with your thought on our EXCLUSIVE interview with John Green. Best, Daniel.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: Hello Daniel. Here is a letter to the editor for you. I know, it is a little long. I can't help it. Please feel free to use this in your newsletter. If you would consider this the introduction to our proposed interview, perhaps you could just write a response like, "Gee, thanks!" and I'll follow it up with a question or commentary for you to respond to next.
Image below: Daniel Perez in 1985, with his hunting trophy, the Legend of Bigfoot statue outside of Benbow, CA.
The Letter, as submitted to BF Times:
'The Bigfoot Times' interview with John Green (October 2009) shows once again how important the work Daniel Perez does is to the integrity of the bigfooting community. Consistently, since I first obtained the meticulous publication, "Big Footnotes," through "Bigfoot at Bluff Creek," and especially in the last six years I've been more actively pursuing knowledge in this area, Daniel has demonstrated critical insight and a healthy dose of skepticism that I see as vital to the field. And his work clearly stands out in that field, one often given to impulse and sensationalism. It is an area of study seen as strange and ridiculous by many in the public at large, so a presence such as the BF Times demonstrates is even more crucial for those who at least provisionally believe. But, especially in the area of history and chronologically detailed and documented analysis, The BF Times excels. While anyone can naively hoot at owls in the woods, record coyotes, mistake falling acorns or woodpeckers, and fall victim to hoaxes or mis-perceptions, even blobsquatches, out in the field, it takes a hard-nosed investigator to sort the wheat from the chaff. Along with only a few others of his generation, Daniel represents a transition from the old guard of the "Four Horsemen" era, hopefully reaching into the new front of field investigators proliferating across the country. We must not forget the history of this cryptic phenomenon, nor concede victory to scoffing outside scholars or journalists who seek to write off the whole thing, or exploit it. Daniel may not spend every weekend in the woods with thermal gear and camouflage, but when events and controversies arise, you can count on The BF Times to be there with razor-edge insight. He may perturb you from time to time, but he is to my eye very serious and sincere in his pursuits. And he remembers what happened and when, allowing no "Bluff Creek Massacre" or such theory to pass without being debunked. I recommend highly to all interested in the possibility or probability of Sasquatch that you read his newsletter. It makes my day when I receive it in the mail, and I normally devour it straightaway without even leaving the post office parking lot. I can only say I wish it were 8 pages, or 16, long. That, or better: please publish the complete works in book or CD form.'
DANIEL PEREZ: Hello Steve. That was a rather complimentary review of the newsletter and I certainly appreciate it. I will see if I can fit it in the November edition. As for the proposed interview, sure, I can start that way... "gee, thanks," ...but I expect only HARDBALL questions.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: Hey, well, I don't mean to be over-complimentary. I'll be sure to be mean and nasty enough here to balance that out. I do mean it, though. I have to tell you that it was due in good part to your work and publications that I started to see the deeper aspects of bigfooting, and to take the thing a bit more seriously. Like many, my childhood was full of obsessions with monsters and science fiction, and Bigfoot was always the best of them for me. But with time it faded, and for most of my "adult" life I'd only regarded it as a curiosity, or something funny mainly because it was offensive to the status quo of our society. When I started looking into your "Big Footnotes" I began to realize how pervasive the cryptid hominid/hominoid phenomenon is. And then I moved to Willow Creek, purely NOT really to seek Bigfoot. But once here, I began to hear all the stories and reports and it grew on me, stronger and more seriously than it was even when I was a kid, that this thing is REAL. It was the 2003 Symposium here in town that really got me hooked permanently into it. I wonder about your own start in bigfooting. I've heard you talk about how "The Legend of Boggy Creek" got you interested as a kid, but how was it that the fascination persisted and grew on into adulthood? For me there were decades of other pursuits between my own "boggy creek moment" and the time I took any serious interest in the Sasquatch subject. But you've been at it, what, since the age of ten or so? What was and is it about the Bigfoot, if you don't mind digging a little deeper, that hooked you and made it into a lifelong project that has become the main thing you are known for to the world? What is it that makes bigfooting meaningful and rewarding to you?
DANIEL PEREZ: There is no question “The Legend of Boggy Creek” had a huge impact on me. I think I was about 10 years old. I remember my brother and sister went to see the movie at the theater when it first came out. I don't know how the movie was selected but perhaps it may have been we just all agreed to go see a monster movie. It is amazing how impressionable you are at a young age, as that movie had a major impact on the direction of my life. Today, there is hardly an hour in my life I don't think about some facet or aspect of the Bigfoot mystery. I am 46 now, so my casual to casually serious to serious full fledged involvement happened over that span. I never thought I would publish a highly successful, industry leading newsletter on the topic, but here we are 10 years later. After studying the subject for so long and making outside research and investigation it became clear to me that there was a real species behind the mystery and not just simple folklore and mythology. So that, to me, is simply fascinating.
Fascinating, too, is the scientific community in North America is blind and deaf when it comes to this topic. Perhaps there is fear as to what your colleague might say or think of you for being interested in this subject. It arouses emotion. I also think and hope we can solve this mystery within my lifetime, but time will tell. Rene Dahinden told me they thought it would be only a matter of months before they went down to northern California before they got one, so that is definitely something to keep in mind. It is meaningful to me as I am sure one day the next generation will look back at my main production, the Bigfoot Times, and realize there was a lot of original work done in those pages.
I think I keep going because I want to know what these animals are. It isn't in the pongid line and it isn't in the hominid line... it is a little like Dr. John Napier pointed out in his 1972 book, a separate line. Bigfoot is kind of like a missing link between the hominids and pongids. So if we get one, via DNA testing, etc. we might be able to see where this fits into the grand scheme of things from a primate point of view. I find the topic simply fascinating and I have no plans to ever retire from the field.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: For me it was seeing a triple feature at the drive-in that my mother used to take us to. It had Bigfoot, then UFO abductions, and then a movie about an infestation of giant mutant cockroaches. I remember being seriously spooked by all that, so much that we had to sleep in our parents' bed that night. I suppose it is, if I may interpolate from what you are saying, that the creature in Boggy Creek was something more than just a made-up movie monster, something more alive and tangible than myth and movies? All of that stuff is fascinating to a kid, but somehow Bigfoot has an appeal beyond the imagination and fantasy, even for adults: it retains the magic of myth and legend due to utter elusiveness, but is also a plausible creature that leaves convincing (if one really looks into it) physical evidence behind.
So, you're only a couple of years older than me. Funny, but when I was still collecting baseball cards you were already becoming a serious Bigfoot researcher. What year did you actually start corresponding with John Green, Rene Dahinden, and any other “elder” bigfooters? What were those early interactions like? How did those relationships evolve over the years? And whom were you most influenced and mentored by?
Also, "Boggy Creek," though based upon real event reports, and containing many of the real-life principals involved, still retains many of the elements of the typical monster/slasher/abductor-killer terrorizing hapless humans genre. How did you find your views of the Sasquatch evolving from this somewhat simplistic cinematic portrayal to more mature critical, investigatory and scientific considerations from that point and over the years? And given that you started in it so young, and so obsessively, did you find your pursuits interfering with the normal high school and college social process and career development? I mean, why did you quit Humboldt State University? Did your encounters with the tales of Bigfoot around here influence you? And, you know, one hears about bigfooting causing divorces and breaks with family and friends, some of this notable in Rene's life.... Can you speak to that, personally? I'll get to the ape vs. human issue later.
DANIEL PEREZ: I was in touch with Rene Dahinden, first, I believe, around 1977 but I think I misplaced or threw those letters out and I think I first wrote John Green in 1978 right after his “Sasquatch: The Apes Among Us” came out. I was also in touch with Dr. Grover Krantz, but he was not a regular correspondent. My biggest influence came from Rene Dahinden and John Green. Looking back, I was their protégé. It was like getting a free correspondence course in Bigfooting by two of the greats. If it was in physics, it would be like being mentored by Albert Einstein and Richard Feynman. I was lucky to get in touch with the right people right out of the gate. A lot of new Bigfooters have no mentoring behind them.Image above: Rene Dahinden lambastes Grover Krantz from the audience, as seen in Sasquatch Odyssey.
On the topic of ape vs. human, that has never been an issue to me. As I told a newspaper reporter in Ohio, it isn't an ape and it isn't a human, it is what it is. It is somewhat like asking is it a basketball or a football and if you give yourself only those two options it doesn't allow for alternative explanations. Perhaps it is a soccer ball. You must keep your mind open on the 'what is it' topic. Better to answer that one when a body is collected.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: Wow, I wonder what was in those old letters? Can you tell us here? Do you ever think of publishing them? It would be interesting not only for the historical value of what those guys had to say back then, but also to see the young, developing mind of a budding bigfooter.
Image above: "Big Footnotes," an extensive, lengthy bibliography on Bigfoot-related publications in book, periodical, film and other venues. This will astonish the uninformed. Very limited quantities are still available, so strike now.
And also, I've noted over the years, you seem to get embroiled yourself in certain controversies. Do you ever feel like an ambassador between negotiating parties? Or perhaps, do you ever feel like you have to play muckraker (in the positive, not the tabloid sense) within these controversial issues? One can see it happening again lately, with the “Massacre Theory,” and certain comments you've made about M. K. Davis and David Paulides. One is bound to take flak for any individualistic position one takes, to the extent that one almost doesn't want to say anything. And yet, you always take a position in the fray and in your newsletter. Do you find this an uncomfortable position, or do you kind of enjoy the argumentative process?
Also, as you mention mentoring, it brings me to another question I wanted to ask later. How do you feel about the widely proliferating new Bigfoot research organizations, now found in most regions of the USA? How do you regard the type of research that has become more or less dominant, the type that goes out into the field at night and does call blasts, wood knocking, and all of that? Do you think this BFRO-style approach is effective, and how do you regard the various evidence they have come up with, such as the Skookum Cast and the Jacobs Photos, or the various thermal ghost-images? It seems to me that this new approach differs from yours, and in some regards is different from the practices of Green and Dahinden. For one, you take a more historical path; and then, those older researchers mainly seemed to record sightings and check them out after the fact in the field. These newer guys are out there actively trying to lure the Sasquatch in, track them down, get them on technological imagers, even living like them, to find them at all costs. How do you feel about these activities and tactics, especially as it still seems that the preponderance of Bigfoot sightings are basically accidental and matters of sheer chance, as in the numerous roadside sightings? And how susceptible are Bigfoot hunters to seeing Bigfoot out there (or in photos) when perhaps it is not there that night (or in that blobsquatch photo), after all?
Image above, Click to Enlarge: A letter to Rich Grumley, California BigFoot Organization (CBFO) from Dr. Geoffrey Bourne of the Yerkes Regional Primate Research Center.
About the situation that developed at the Canadian Sasquatch Symposium, hosted by Stephen Harvey and MC-ed by me, that was the reason you see me between Grover Krantz and Rene Dahinden. Looking back, at that exact time, I think it was 1999, if someone told me they would be gone forever from the room in 2001 and 2002 I would not have believed it, but there we have it: both have died. They were my friends, and colleagues. I don't think there was any Bigfoot Wars between them, they just had differing viewpoints. I was the moderator and it was my job to continue on with the scheduled time frame and speakers, so I just said something like, we are not going to let this conference degenerate into an argument, etc.
With regard to getting involved in certain controversies, no, not really. I just have the willingness to speak with unusual candor that others are gun shy with. I speak my mind, plain and simple and with the Bigfoot Times newsletter I have it as a specific conduit with readers all over the world to put my thoughts in writing. I enjoy the argumentative process, but not the type that has to do with yelling and screaming and name calling, but the intelligent argument that might further the cause.
With regard to getting involved in certain controversies, no, not really. I just have the willingness to speak with unusual candor that others are gun shy with. I speak my mind, plain and simple and with the Bigfoot Times newsletter I have it as a specific conduit with readers all over the world to put my thoughts in writing. I enjoy the argumentative process, but not the type that has to do with yelling and screaming and name calling, but the intelligent argument that might further the cause.
I am not really impressed with the new know-nothing Bigfoot organizations out there who have a website and about $10 dollars to fund their organization. It is doubtful you will be able to tell others how to proceed with Bigfooting, but I think some of the things the BFRO is doing are a waste of time, like trying to secure more footage. They are only doing that to get good footage to license it to the media; it has nothing to do with scientific advancement in general. We already have a good film of a Bigfoot from 1967 [the PGF]. We need a body, plain and simple. I like the thermal and night vision equipment, as that is a good way to see, if I may, in the night, to level the playing field to see one, if that is your objective. But with something like the Mike Greene thermal film, okay, maybe it is one. So what, what has it established except we now know they are in a certain part of the country.
I hate to say it but I have seen and heard all the stuff over the years. I remember around 1984 Mark Keller had seismic sensors for the ground and I went up to see him and I thought it was a neat idea, but he has long disappeared from the scene. I think the trouble with all the newcomers is that nobody asks questions and is looking for advice. They would rather reinvent the wheel rather than go to get free advice.BIGFOOT BOOKS: Well, regarding the “Sasquatch Odyssey” clips—it really seems that Rene had a harsh attitude towards Krantz, accusing him of being gullible re. evidence, and calling him, I can't recall exactly, a “knuckle head” or “dunder head,” or something like that, and in public, out in the lobby of the meeting hall. Though Dahinden's work and value is undisputed, I can't help but feel that this kind of insulting attack was/is counterproductive. One really feels for poor Grover. And you looked just like a referee in a wrestling match gone bad.
[EDITORIAL NOTE: At this point Mr. Perez became busy with his day job—he's a full time professional electrician--and other things, and began to intersperse his answers within Bigfoot Books' long-winded, rambling questioning process. (We booksellers have too much time on our hands in today's poor economy, I suppose.) We will now default to a shorter form for the remainder. As little editing as possible has been done to the following, with a few elisions added to preserve Perez' answering context. His capitalization has been preserved. Hopefully it will still make sense. One problem with this is that it removed BF Books' position of rebuttal, but perhaps we can contain that in later questions.]Image above: Daniel Perez breaks up the battle after Dahinden interrupted Grover Krantz' presentation, as seen in Sasquatch Odyssey.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: I have to say I was quite impressed with the thermal footage Greene presented this year at the Yakima Round-Up. It really does look like a real creature, an upright biped, and due to the pure white thermal coloration of the image in the recording we know that it wasn't a human, or at least was not a human wearing clothes. But yes, it still does not prove the thing to the world. The Patterson-Gimlin film is good—damned good—and yet it is STILL not accepted by the majority, and certainly not by scientists and wildlife biologists beyond the select few like John Bindernagel and Jeff Meldrum. I'd agree, we need a body. But HOW? Do you advocate the killing of a specimen, like Krantz did?
DANIEL PEREZ: A BODY HAS TO BE COLLECTED AND GENERALLY BODIES FROM NATURE ARE COLLECTED VIA A LIVE CAPTURE OR KILLING ONE. I AM NOT AN ADVOCATE OF KILLING ONE, BUT I THINK THAT MIGHT HAVE TO BE THE ONLY WAY. PHOTOS AND THERMALS WILL NOT DO IT, IN MY VIEW.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: And what would you make of the physical things found so far, such as the hair that tests out as being “unknown primate” in origin? If an unknown primate exists in North America and it is NOT a Sasquatch, then what the heck IS it? Meldrum agreed with me at Yakima: this is a LOGICAL proof. How can this be explained, and why is this evidence not good enough? The footprints have been shown clearly by Meldrum to display undeniable anatomical realism and variation. There has been scat found that supposedly contained parasites not known to live in any other animal in the region. We have dermal ridges, beds, unnaturally twisted trees. Sightings abound. Shouldn't this be ample suggestion that the creature is real?
Image: Scott McLean's poster for the 2007 Willow Creek PGF Anniversary event, promoted by Tom Yamarone and Joyce Kearney at which Daniel Perez was the keynote speaker.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: Why is it so hard to find a dead one, or to kill one? They have been shot and hit by semi-trucks, for heck's sake.
DANIEL PEREZ: RARITY OF THE SPECIES AND IT APPEARS TO BE A MOSTLY NOCTURNAL BEING.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: Granted, we know the Gigantopithecus existed (exists?) from only a bunch of teeth and partial jawbones; but shouldn't there be some kind of remains left behind when a Bigfoot dies, without the need for fossilization?
DANIEL PEREZ: THERE ARE STORIES, SOME VERY GOOD ONES PRESENTED IN ALAN BERRY'S BIGFOOT BOOK AND THE ALASKAN BIGFOOT BOOK HAD REPORTS OF PEOPLE FINDING BONES. BONES HAVE BEEN FOUND, BUT APPARENTLY MISPLACED AS TIME WENT ON.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: There are good explanations, like rodents eating bones and such, but they are not fully convincing to non-believers, I've found. It is a great mystery, and without a body we have this other tendency, beyond debunking or mere belief, to try to explain Bigfoot (since you mention Beckjord, what did the rest of the Gimlin letter SAY?)... [interruption]
DANIEL PEREZ: PRIVATE [the letter], JUST A SAMPLING OF SOME OF THE PAPER TRAIL I HAVE ON FILE PRIOR TO THE INTERNET.
DANIEL PEREZ: PRIVATE [the letter], JUST A SAMPLING OF SOME OF THE PAPER TRAIL I HAVE ON FILE PRIOR TO THE INTERNET.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: [continuing] ...as a trans-dimensional shape-shifting, magical-powered alien Lemurian underground spirit being. Could you speak to this issue, especially as to aspects of imagination and possible mis-perception that can occur when nothing solid arises? Are some so eager to encounter Bigfoot, victims of the squatch-on-the-brain, that they misinterpret, that everything becomes “squatchy”?
DANIEL PEREZ: I AM NOT INTERESTED IN THE PARANORMAL BIGFOOT, I AM INTERESTED IN THE PHYSICAL BIGFOOT, OF FLESH AND BONES LIKE US.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: Regarding the research groups, well, at least they are OUT there, and they are adaptive, with cutting edge technology. It increases (to my mind) the chances of encountering, and thus hopefully of understanding the creatures; and maybe, just maybe, they will come up with the specimen or images we need. Are you, then, also saying that pursuing the creature with call blasts and wood knocking tactics is ineffective?
DANIEL PEREZ: NO, I THINK THAT IS A GOOD IDEA AND SHOULD BE USED.BIGFOOT BOOKS: The BFRO is certainly well-funded and highly informed.
DANIEL PEREZ: NO, MATT MONEYMAKER IS WELL FUNDED, I HAVE YET TO HEAR OF ANY MEMBERS GETTING ANY MONEY.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: It would seem that they are successful (BFRO, et al.), at least in that if you talk to them after expeditions they will tell you some very interesting stories. Like Bart Cutino's thermal sighting: it certainly sounds real--you can see it in his eyes how it affected him as he recounts it--and the image looks convincing, the behaviors described are realistic. Or the Skookum Cast... could you tell us what you think of that one? I could have sworn you were subtly questioning it, suggesting that it was an elk print, up in Yakima. That is when Matt Moneymaker grabbed the microphone to refute skepticism about it. And after that I stumbled into a conversation outside the tent with a bunch of folks trying to debunk that piece of evidence.
Image above: A Special Issue of the then-titled "BigfooTimes," called "Bigfoot at Bluff Creek," it is the standard authoritative text on the film and the events surrounding its making. Get it NOW!
DANIEL PEREZ: LIKE I SAID IN 2000 WHEN THE SKOOKUM CAST CAME TO THE ATTENTION OF THE WORLD, IT ALLOWS FOR VARIOUS EXPLANATIONS, NOT JUST BIGFOOT.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: Still, it was good enough for Jeff Meldrum and John Green; why not the rest of the world? Why won't scientists in general consider this phenomenon?
DANIEL PEREZ: I THINK A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH JOB SECURITY.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: And why, would you say, is there so much competition among the groups trying to find Bigfoot?
DANIEL PEREZ: THERE DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE A SECOND PLACE WHEN IT COMES TO THE BIGFOOT SWEEPSTAKES. IT IS WINNER TAKE ALL.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: Why does it get so bitter sometimes?
DANIEL PEREZ: I THINK EVERYONE WANTS TO BE THE ONE WHO MAKES THE DISCOVERY.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: And couldn't this whole thing work better if we were all co-operating, like scientists, making common databases of sightings and sounds, behaviors and stuff like that?
DANIEL PEREZ: THAT IS BULLSHIT, BECAUSE SCIENTISTS WITH CREDENTIAL AND A SALARY DON'T NECESSARILY COOPERATE. A LOT OF THEM DON'T PUT OUT DATA FOR THEIR COLLEAGUES BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE THE FIRST TO PATENT THEIR IDEA OR WHATEVER IT IS THEY ARE WORKING ON. I THINK THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS VERY NAIVE IN THAT SENSE. LOOK AT EDISON AND TESLA. THEY HATED EACH OTHER'S GUTS AND THEY WERE CONTEMPORARIES. Images: Above, Keynote Speaker of the 2007 Willow Creek PGF Conference, Daniel Perez, ridicules the skeptics; Below, Perez holding a Kodak camera just like the one Roger Patterson used to shoot the film.
DANIEL PEREZ: NO, NOT AT ALL.... LOREN COLEMAN HAS SINCE WITHDRAWN ANY ENDORSEMENT FOR DAVID PAULIDES.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: Also, what do you think motivates the generation of such bizarre theories?
DANIEL PEREZ: ATTENTION, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: Is it that the lack of proof, the difficulty in finding evidence or having a sighting, drives people over the edge? Is the PGF, then, as you've said before, like the JFK-Zapruder film, breeding conspiracy and other loony theories?
DANIEL PEREZ: ANYONE CAN SEE ANYTHING THEY WANT IN THAT FILM, EVEN A MAN IN A SUIT, SO THE CONSPIRACY IDEAS DON'T SURPRISE ME MUCH.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: And do you regret awarding M. K. Davis your “Bigfooter of the Year” award a few years back?
DANIEL PEREZ: ABSOLUTELY NOT. HE HAD A GOOD YEAR, DID SOME GOOD WORK AND WE RECOGNIZED HIS ACHIEVEMENTS BEFORE THEY WENT TOO COLORFUL.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: Sorry, that is a lot of questions all at once.... I was an English major, and tend to ramble on and theorize.
DANIEL PEREZ: I WOULD JUST GET TO THE QUESTION AND AVOID THE COMMENTARY AS I THINK IT JUST WATERS THINGS DOWN.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: OK, then. Mainly, there is just a LOT I want to talk about or say, but there would be an endless stream of short questions/short answers. I think it is more interesting when one discusses things. And then, there are things in what you say that stimulate new thoughts, and hence a new stream of questioning. Let me make a few brief points just to respond to your answers, and to which you may freely respond, and then I'll move on to the last bunch of questions.
First: In regard to the “spirit being” views, these seem to originate in the Native American culture primarily, before the “New Agers” stepped in. I hear about it all the time from the local Hupas and Yuroks and others. What do you think of the Native American background of Sasquatch, in this light?
Second: In regard to Science, I am told by scientist friends--and of course read about it--that Science today is essentially a collaborative affair, and that things are so complex that there could be no discovery at all without peer review and publication of data. Preliminary results are guarded, partly because one wants to verify them, and settle the issues of uncertainty before one puts one's reputation on the line. In bigfooting, I am arguing, we'd ALL be a lot closer to the real goal if we cooperated and shared. It is the cure for cancer that matters, not winning the Nobel Prize, no? Isn't it more important to FIND and PROVE Bigfoot/Sasquatch than it is WHO finds it? We all want to be proven right—isn't that enough???
Third: And re. the Patterson-Gimlin film, I think that there is something about it that kind of drives people crazy, in that it is SO CLOSE to proving things, but still not quite enough. It leads folks to look perhaps too deeply into it, until they start seeing things that probably aren't even there, just like with the JFK film and the myriad theories. And around the PGF, the circumstances are studied, and debunkers love to make “hay” out of the timeline issues.
Question: You've studied this PGF issue in depth. From what Al Hodgson, Roger Patterson, Bob Gimlin and many others there at the time have said, then and over the years, there are actually SEVERAL apparent stories. Could you comment on WHY there are so many versions of things that happened that day, and how and why do they contradict? Is there a simple, clear timeline and story answer we can give to the world that would make the skeptics shut up?
Image: Cover of the May 2009 The Bigfoot Times, covering the Yakima Bigfoot Round-Up, which Daniel Perez distributed for free to the bigfooting community.
DANIEL PEREZ: You are dreaming if you think certain individuals are to share and cooperate with data. In Bigfooting today, because it is made of an amorphous group of characters, WHO finds it is of paramount importance.
There are not a whole lot of versions from primary sources, Roger and Bob, of what happened that day, just different interpretations. Bob said it smelled a certain way and Roger felt different. Bob said it was a certain height and Roger felt different. There is nothing wrong with the timeline, they got the film, went straight for Willow Creek. Those who have timeline issues are ignorant of the primary sources, namely the living, Bob Gimlin, who states they got the film, then went straight to Willow Creek. It was Al Hodgson who attributed Roger with saying they went over the Bald Hill Road en route to Eureka, which is plainly wrong. You could not do that in the prescribed amount of time. They DID NOT go to Eureka first and it is doubtful they were in the town, but more likely just north of it at the airport.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: You don't wish to comment on the Native American thing? It seems bigfooters want to have the affirmation that First Nations knew of Sasquatch, but don't want usually to buy into what they thought of it as being: magical and mystical, spiritual. Any views?
I believe Gimlin. He clearly states in the 1992 interview that they went straight to town, Willow Creek, where they saw Al. I'll ask Mr. Hodgson about it next time I see him. Bigfooters even now tell me they think Bald Hills was it, and some get angry if I question it. It can't be both ways. This year "Tribal Bigfoot" repeats the Bald Hills error, and by implication questions Roger and Bob, and even the film. Also, Syl McCoy and the guy with the cabin where they supposedly stopped for showers, others, are primary, too, and they say somewhat different things. And then, memories differ greatly, too. Comments, if you'd like?
Question: Daniel, let's talk a bit about your projects. What is the Center for Bigfoot Studies? Does it have members and go on expeditions? Are you planning on ever releasing The Bigfoot Times in book form, or on CD like NABS did with The Track Record? It is rather cost-prohibitive to acquire the whole publication run by ordering single issues. I feel the thing deserves preservation in a bound volume or in indexed digital form. To this day I greatly wish I could have been a subscriber from the start, and find things in your 60-page Index that I do not have on hand. Also, could you tell us about your new children's book on Bigfoot project? What's in it, where can folks buy it and when does it come out, what is it about in particular, who is the illustrator, and is it fictional?
Image above: The Bigfoot Times' table at the Willow Creek PGF Conference.
The business about the cabin and the shower was covered in the Bigfoot Times and absolutely debunked. The business about the Bald Hills route was investigated, when I went over the identical route, noting such things as mileage and time, and that is impossible. That was also covered in the newsletter.
The Center for Bigfoot Studies is just a holding tank of information, an office in a home. No members, no expeditions. The CBS does produce a monthly product, the Bigfoot Times and we have about 800 members or so. Our numbers are slipping as of late due to a weak economy but I suspect things will be better when we pull out of this recession. No plans for release of the Bigfoot Times in book form but maybe a CD in the future. We have covered a lot of ground, and one look at the index shows exactly the areas we have covered. Some of it, too, is original work, so it is nice not to rehash old stuff.
I was on the phone this evening with artist Steve DeMarco who is doing the illustrative work and we are behind schedule, but we both agreed that would be just the way it goes since we both have to work and schedules can be broken. We are covering all the classics and well known stories, such as Jacko, William Roe, and ending with the Georgia Bigfoot Hoax from 2008. We don't have a publisher, but when we are done, that will not be an issue. It is hard to write for the juvenile reader, because you have to break things down to basics. Short sentences. Easy grammar. It is our first venture in this area and we hope to be successful.
Also, what do you make of the old animosity between John Green and Peter Byrne? I've always appreciated Mr. Byrne and his work over the years; but then, I tend to hold Mr. Green as beyond reproach, especially as his pamphlet books are how I first really learned about Bigfoot at the age of ten, reading everything I could from the Paranormal section at the library. Green is like the Moses of bigfooting; and I note that he has been a major influence on you. But Byrne really is every bit as fundamental, having been there from the start, even in the Himalayan Snowman Expeditions. What do you think about this?
DANIEL PEREZ: I first met Bob Titmus in October 1987 and knew him somewhat well. He was not the lunatic fringe or a fraud. So when I stumbled upon Peter Byrne's article on Bob Titmus it didn't have the look and feel of being truthful, so I forwarded it to someone who knew him far better than me: John Green. And John stated without doubt it was just a pack of lies. I don't know anything about this other stuff that you write about to me. It just sounds like someone is looking for attention.
The rift between John Green and Peter Byrne is long standing as John has long considered Peter a fraud. There is a whole laundry list of things Peter has stated that simply aren't so. I don't know if he is sloppy or just has a blatant disregard for the truth. He is old now and no longer a factor in Bigfooting, so I wish him well, but the piece about Bob Titmus was just a slander job in my view.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: Yes, I felt when reading that Byrne piece that it had all the hallmarks of a Tall Tale, a joke: the punchline, the scatological references, the being made a fool of, etc. I just didn't believe it. Why would Byrne write such an absurdity?
Often, when receiving reports on Bigfoot sightings and related stories, one has to really utilize one's bullshit detector. It happens to me a lot in my shop, where a certain type of old-timer just loves to see if he can pull someone's leg. As I'm a “city boy” out here, still, I may be a target. But one can normally tell, and one gets rather good at telling after a while, who is joking and who is lying, exaggerating or joking. It isn't just attention-getting that motivates hoaxing—I think it has a lot to do with plain old-fashioned humor and the kind of fun and games bored rural loggers and contractors might play out at the work camp.
Was Byrne just in it for the money, the fame? It's a rather obscure fame, at best, and rather an impecunious pursuit. Who gets rich in bigfooting? What is the most egregious "lie" Byrne has committed? Have you ever dealt with Tom Biscardi, or Ivan Marx, Ray Wallace, Paul Freeman, etc.? What do you think of them?
And Daniel, have YOU ever been the victim of a hoax? And how do you tell if reports you investigate are real or not? What are the standards for evidence and reporting you use?
Also, another brief question tacked on: Have you, to your satisfaction, located the EXACT spot of the P-G film site? I mean, not just the area in general, but the starting and ending points of Patty's TRACKWAY? Is that ground still there on-site, and can one identify and walk the full trackway?
I have talked with Tom Biscardi by phone and the last time I spoke with him was in 2008. I spent the night at Ivan Marx's home in Burney, California and I have several handwritten letters from Ray Wallace. I met Paul Freeman once, in June 1989 and between the four, in my opinion, I always wonder what 'truth' means to them. I think I have been the victim of a hoax on more than one occasion. I went and saw someone this Summer and it was pretty clear he had a vivid imagination. Bigfoot was showing up on the college campus. I am not sure what motivated him to make these reports. He may have really believed what he said, but I didn't.
Today you cannot locate with an precision the exact pathway where the P-G film subject walked, only the general area, and that was established back in 1967.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: OK, well how about a conclusion? I have had this compound question in the back of my mind. What does Bigfoot mean to you? I mean, if it were somehow proven that Bigfoot did not exist (I know, one can't prove a negative), what would that mean to you and your life? Also, WHY are you after Bigfoot, and not other fascinating things, say, Chupacabras, Loch Ness Monster, Mothman, Faery Folk, or whatever? And if you could speculate, what is the FUTURE of bigfooting?
DANIEL PEREZ: It is just interesting that this species, possibly in the same family as man, has survived all these years on the North American continent. I don't know if there is meaning in that, but that is one of the things it means to me. If it didn't exist, it would still be interesting, as you have this extremely strong myth that continues to perpetuate itself to this day. The why of it is because Bigfoot came first in terms of an introduction. I think the future of Bigfooting will belong to the scientific community and all the hobbyist may go by the wayside. We shall See.
Image above: The type of 16mm camera, a Cine-Kodak K-100, used by Roger Patterson in the PGF.
BIGFOOT BOOKS: OK, thanks so much, Daniel. I hope you've enjoyed this interview as much as I have. I'll say that if any researcher will survive the "discovery" period it will be you, and a few others like Chris Murphy and Loren Coleman, who have an historical basis to their pursuits. You'll be called upon as an expert interpreter, whomever happens to "find" and "prove" the creature. I'm glad you're in the field--you've been highly influential for me. Keep up the fabulous work!
DANIEL PEREZ: Well, time will tell. If the mystery outlives me, well, then so be it. --dp
Completed November 7th 2009
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ANGRY BIGFOOT SPEAKS:
ANGRY BIGFOOT SPEAKS: "Me talk nerd. Nerd scientist me no like. Me know all scientist nerd, with pocket protector. But not Meldrum, he OK, and Bindernagel. They like forest, eat berry. Bigfoot no wear pocket protector, me no wear clothes, not lab robe. Me happy in my own fur. Hu-man afraid, most of them, so not believe in me. They come out to my place me show them. It better be wild, be free, be real like me. Not fake hu-man in dumb hive of ants city."
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Images: The 2007 Conference photos copyright by Steven Streufert, others by courtesy of Daniel Perez and The Center for Bigfoot Studies, or else gratefully photographed from the TV while it was playing our favorite documentary,"Sasquatch Odyssey," for something like the tenth time. And thanks to SQUATCHOPEDIA, just for being there for quick Bigfoot reference.
Images: The 2007 Conference photos copyright by Steven Streufert, others by courtesy of Daniel Perez and The Center for Bigfoot Studies, or else gratefully photographed from the TV while it was playing our favorite documentary,"Sasquatch Odyssey," for something like the tenth time. And thanks to SQUATCHOPEDIA, just for being there for quick Bigfoot reference.
Interview copyright 2009, Steven Streufert and Bigfoot Books. May be quoted but please add a citation and link to this blog. Thanks!
Go visit Daniel Perez at http://bigfoottimes.net/. Subscriptions to the newsletter, sent by snail mail monthly are a great deal at $14.00 a year, for 12 cutting-edge issues delivered by postal mail. Highly Recommended! View a full SAMPLE ISSUE... HERE.Hear Daniel Perez interviewed at length recently on KSGV Radio streaming online or downloadable mp3 audio file. Archived on the Heretic Show, or get the file directly here: http://glendorabiz.com/hosts/george/october17.mp3 .
