BIGFOOT MISCELLANY 4: Meeting Jay Rowland, Bluff Creek Contractor; 2010 Bigfoot Days, Odds and Ends; A Bold Statement out of Oregon

MEETING MR. ROWLAND, LONGTIME BLUFF CREEK WORKER. 

INTERVIEW PLANNED.

On a tip from Al Hodgson, we spoke briefly a few days ago with local old-timer, Mr. Jay Rowland, as he was clearing blackberry brush on our off the beaten track dirt country road. It's funny that all of this information was living right next door, basically, to our cabin all of this time. We've said it so many times before: do your Bigfoot hunting where you live! Or move to where you can Squatch.

(If you haven't yet read our transcribed two and a quarter hour long, three part INTERVIEW WITH AL HODGSON, Bigfooting elderstatesman, click this link to begin with Part One.)

As you might recall from our interview with Al, he is the one who revealed to us that the elderly couple living just diagonally down the hill from our own hilltop cabin home was a man who was THERE in Bluff Creek back during the vital, early days of Bigfoot reports in the area. He confirmed to us that he worked up there with the Wallace brothers, Ray and Shorty, in the late fifties. He actually lived part-time (weekly and seasonally) on the site in a trailer, essentially at Louse Camp, from the early sixties to the early seventies. According to him there was NO WAY those guys faked all of the tracks found up there. He agreed that the Wallace brothers were not even necessarily at the site during the times the most famous footprints were found, in 1958 and 1967, and many more tracks were found that have not been publicized.

He has agreed to do an interview with us sometime soon, on the record, regarding Bigfoot and the history of Bluff Creek, about which he knows apparently a LOT. He also confirmed to me that he KNOWS that Wallace didn't make those tracks, as he has seen them after Wallace died (he might have been talking about "Shorty" Wilbur Wallace there, not Ray Wallace).

Image: The man himself, at the bottom of Panther Road in Willow Creek, 2010. Photo, Steven Streufert. All images CLICK TO ENLARGE. Also, historical photos of tracks in the ground and castings that look suspiciously like Ray Wallace's footprint stomper, middle. Also included, one of Ray Wallace's faked Bigfoot photos, this one of his wife in an ape suit.

He told us of a time when he was up on the Bluff Creek road construction project and a massive slide had blocked the road in to the work site. He had stayed the night up on the other side of the slide. No one else was around, and no one could have gotten in there without a major long nighttime hike; and yet, footprints were found by him the next day, before he had to go down with the Cat and clear the slide from the top end. Another time he had slept out on the ground one night, alone up there again, and awoke in the morning to find huge footprints going all around his sleeping bag. "It was as close to me as I am to you," he said to us, as he moved forward to within three feet of where we were sitting in the car.

As we mentioned briefly in the interview with Al Hodgson, we spoke a year ago with another local Willow Creek guy with a similar background, Joe Ramos, now sadly dead but who was 92 when we interviewed him (this interview was done OFF the record, unrecorded, and we have only handwritten notes). Mr. Ramos had said he'd seen the footprints and such, too, but that he felt the whole thing was "99% a hoax." What about the other 1%, then, we said? This got a bemused chuckle and a shrug of the shoulders.

Ramos worked one creek over from Bluff Creek, in the Blue Creek and Red Mountain area, on another crew than the Wallace one. He felt that all of these reports of footprints and equipment vandalism were just shenanigans, not caused by "Bigfoot." He admitted, however, to feeling tremendously spooked late one dark night while sitting alone in his truck up on Bald Hills Road, for absolutely no reason at all. There was just "something" out there, he said. Mr. Rowland laughed at this story, but somehow didn't know Ramos. There are a lot of these Bigfoot-connected old-timers still living around Willow Creek. Some come into our Bigfoot Books store with their stories. Many of them are jokers and tall-tale tellers who like to pull your leg; but Jay Rowland stands in contraction to this tendency, insisting the tracks were real, not hoaxed, and seeming utterly sincere while saying so. Rowland told us he started living at the Bluff Creek site in 1960 or thereabouts, working on logging projects in the same area as and sometimes with the Wallace company.

We are hoping to explore any firsthand things about the Jerry Crew finds of 1958, as he knew Jerry and the others working up there then. He worked in the area all through the major Patterson-Gimlin Film (PGF), Blue Creek Mountain and Onion Mountain events and thereafter until 1972. He was there in 1963 when Al Hodgson cast tracks at the Notice Creek-Bluff Creek confluence, and he knows why Al's track cast has a crack line in it--the cast was dropped on the way up out of the creekbed.

The very next day on our way to work we talked again, off the record, to Jay Rowland, for  a full two and a quarter hours. Sorry to all the folks who may have stopped by the bookshop, but Bigfoot made us late! He's a literal goldmine of Bigfoot information. He told us the last thing he's ever going to do is spread around a bunch of lies, and that he hates "bull" more than anything else. He was actually a bit angry at John Green, though, after all these years, as Green had promised to mail him a copy of SASQUATCH: APES AMONG US, as Rowland had done a three hour interview with him way back in the day. John, if you're reading, Mr. Rowland is still waiting for his copy of your fine book.

Oddly, despite all of the tracks he's seen, he never actually SAW a Bigfoot, and he doesn't believe the PGF is authentic. He was in the area that year until November 1967, with his trailer set up at Louse Camp, just downstream from where the two famous guys camped, and did not see Patterson and Gimlin once. Odd, indeed!

Images: Above, Ray Wallace, known Rascal--but did he fake the prints or just copy the shape? Next, Roger Patterson and a quite differently shaped track cast. Below, Roger in one of his Bigfoot expedition camps. Historical.

Then later, strangely, he claimed that "they made $20,000,000 on the film," and that "the other guy with the film" (could he have meant Al DeAtley instead of Bob Gimlin?) was a member of "The Syndicate." Ummm.....? Rowland made sure to emphasize that by "Syndicate" he meant Organized Crime. He must have meant someone else, as Gimlin has said repeatedly that he never really made even one red cent off the film, and besides, he has always worked for a living driving trucks and managing horses, never displaying any inordinate forms of wealth. Patterson himself died poor, owing people money. So where does this twenty million bucks come into the picture? News to us, we say, a thing that we hope to get to the bottom of later. Mr. Rowland promised to do a full, on-record, recorded interview soon, so keep your eyes on this blog for further explorations, and we hope, new revelations.

Interested in seeing what an utter NUTCASE Ray Wallace was? Check out David Paulides' and NABS' absurdly credulous presentation of his oddball letters to Ray Crowe and the Western Bigfoot Society HERE. Prepare yourself for UFOs, and oh so much more inane lunacy. We promise, you WILL be entertained. They're fun, but please don't take this crap seriously, folks. Ray Wallace was some kind of a hoaxer and crank, but almost certainly not one good enough to fool John Green, Rene Dahinden and for that matter Jeff Meldrum.

Just look at the old photos of the other, ridiculous "footprints" that Wallace tried to sell in his roadside stand. Will Paulides come out as a Alien-Bigfoot believer next? We eagerly await it. Dave, just because some old story has a Native American telling you something about a Bigfoot, doesn't make it necessarily literally true. If it did, we'd expect NABS to believe in a shape-shifting Sasquatch, too.

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ODDS AND ENDS AND NEWS:

Here, you can see the "BIGFOOT CAGE" at the Bigfoot Motel in Willow Creek, formerly known as Wyatt's Motel. This is where Tom Slick and the Pacific Northwest Expedition, including John Green, Rene Dahinden, Bob Titmus and Peter Byrne met up in 1959. They stayed in the motel rooms, not the cage, by the way. The cage didn't catch Bigfoot this time, but rather our own kid, Denali Brown, who is growling furiously.

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We are working on a new project which we are calling "LETTER TO A YOUNG BIGFOOTER" (after Rilke). Actually, a middle school kid from Southern California sent us a letter asking questions for a school project about the world of cryptozoology, Sasquatch, Bigfoot research, and what it's like to be a part of it. What, basically, is it like to explore things that the majority of society views as crazy? We started by thinking the answer to this would be a simple few short sentences per question, but now we find there are no simple answers. Look for that in an upcoming blog entry.
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MATT MONEYMAKER POSTS ARTICLES ON BFRO

For those of you who may not have noticed, the founder of the BFRO has been quietly adding some very interesting new content to the BFRO website. He doesn't put his name on the main page as a byline, so it might be easy to miss. The site has recently been subtly updated, so check it out! Articles by Matt address important current issues, including the inaccuracy of the Wikipedia Bigfoot page, false claims of hoaxing the PGF, and the re-emergence of notorious hoaxer Cliff Crook (appropriately named!). Of particular interest is Moneymaker's legal argument for the prosecution of hoaxers like those involved in the Georgia Bigfoot Body debacle.

* Hoaxer Cliff Crook Promoting Phony Photo, Again
* Good Arguments for a Federal Statute Prohibiting Hoaxes Targeting Televison News or Radio News Broadcasters
* Was the Patterson-Gimlin Film Ever Proven to Be a Hoax?
* Problems with Wikipedia's 'Bigfoot' Article
* Also, new to us anyway, is the BFRO DISCUSSION BOARD, "The Blue Forum"
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Images, above and below: 2010, Steven Streufert.

Willow Creek is starting to gear up for its annual Labor Day Weekend BIGFOOT DAYS. This 2010 year will be the 50th Anniversary of the event. Recently a preliminary poster appeared in the window of the Willow Creek Community Service District calling for contenders for the Bigfoot Days King and Queen Contest, the winners of which are referred to as "Little Miss and Little Mister Bigfoot." Al Hodgson is working on a photo collection for display during the event, and wants to get John Green to come down to be master of ceremonies and give a talk, health permitting. If you would like to speak at the event or participate in any way you might want to call the number on the poster (530-629-3805, click to enlarge poster) for information, or drop us an email at bigfootbooks@gmail.com and we'll try to help with the connections. Read our previous blog entries on Bigfoot Days in Willow Creek HERE and HERE.

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Image: Also found at the WCCSD is this cool "BIGFOOT LIVES" poster, prominently displayed at the front desk to announce the District's formal belief in the Creature. Steve Paine, who manages the parks and utilities District, told us he used to interview famous Bigfooter elder Al Hodgson every weekend for several hours, talking about local history. He showed us a file folder several inches thick that was full of transcripts, photos, and notes from Al. What a gold mine! He spoke enticingly of having a whole big box of Bigfoot material, too, but we have yet to see it. Another goldmine, containing only Paine knows what!

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HAPPY CAMP TRACKWAY FOUND! Or NOT?

Bigfoot Field Reporter Sharon Lee blogged on her great blog about a new footprint track find by formerly Biscardi-connected Tara Lee Hauki, on February 2, 2010. It looks dubious to us, though, in extremis. They claim dermal ridges were left in melted snow, which we find simply not at all credible. How BIG were they? How long was the step/stride? None of this information is given. Take this report with a several gram serving of salt. For those who may not know, Happy Camp is a town at the north end of the Bigfoot Highway from Willow Creek. Folks, if we are going to report such things, let's at least get the details! Otherwise, this is just some guy's melted boot prints on a snowy road. OK?

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BIGFOOT TATTOOS!

Recently our daughter Denali set up a tattoo doodling service in our Bigfoot Books shop. For a friend of ours she custom-designed the permanent ink pen Bigfoot arm tat seen to left. This fellow's girlfriend seems to have been inspired by this, as she now has a real tattooed Patterson-Gimlin Film frame 352 on her own arm. On the other side of her arm is a redwood forest complete with owl and moon.

The grand scheme is that ultimately Bigfoot, along with other cryptids, will be included in this tattooed forest habitat on human skin, and most of the arm will be covered in this comprehensive design. Very cool! We'll keep this blog posted when new images that follow reveal further progress. Talk about wearing your heart on your "sleeve." But then, I'm told she does not even believe in Bigfoot....

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A REVOLUTIONARY STATEMENT IN BIGFOOTING EMERGES FROM OREGON.

 In other news, Autumn Williams of Oregon Bigfoot has come out with a VERY interesting, and we must say, quite refreshing view of the Bigfooting field, in her recent blog. She calls it "Professional Suicide" (click the link to read the introduction and encounter her three-part, very heart-felt YouTube video declaration), but we would like to at least see a question mark on the end of that title, Autumn. In our view, this public statement makes her immediately one of the most interesting (though certainly controversial) figures in the field of "Bigfoot Research" today. This statement--whatever your reaction or position you take on it--really needed to be made; and we, personally, are glad that she has said it. Click the image box below to view Part One of Three video blog segments.

She says that there is something, for apparent lack of a better term, "icky" about the Bigfoot research field today. We'd have to agree, so far as all the egotism and interpersonal recrimination involved; but further, one has to wonder why the search for an unknown creature would require so much machismo, gear and guns and big trucks, traps and tricks, camouflage, and "paramilitary" behavior. How, Williams asks, does this bring us CLOSER to these creatures? Are we not just driving them, and the witnesses of them, away? She goes so far as to imply that there is something somewhat perverse about the fixation on evidence, spoor and proof of Bigfoot. We ourselves have often felt there is indeed something kind of pornographic about the obsession with Bigfoot artifacts, something conquistadorial and predatory about the pursuit of the Creature and the fixation on its image. There is a strong desire to "capture" the mysterious, to "own" and possess it. Autumn Williams speaks as a "witness advocate," aruing that we should respect witnesses, not judge them, nor "interrogate" them as if they were members of the Taliban. She suggests (as we take it) that we, rather than "hunting" Bigfoot, should become more sympathetic with it and its way of being. The failure of decades of aggressive pursuit of the Sasquatch is telling. These efforts have mainly failed to "prove" the Creature, she argues, and this may be because of its macho tactics and (as we interpret her words) aggressive imposition of the human modality upon nature.

We agree, in great measure. No one has really ever understood nature and the Mystery of the world around us by conquering, killing and dissecting it. Squatch where you live! Think (and feel) like a Squatch. Live like someone that a creature such as Bigfoot might actually want to get to know. Otherwise, we are just out there possibly scaring them further away into the remaining corners of a diminishing habitat. Aggressive Bigfoot "hunting" is something like a "colonial" incursion into the domain of another Being, one of apparent grace and intelligence--do we really want to repeat this process again in this country? Be an explorer, not a conqueror. Think of how Jane Goodall and Dian Fossey found and studied the gorillas and chimpanzees--through patience, subtlety, compassion, and gradual understanding, they learned how to dwell with the creatures without offending them, how to be more than human, in a way, and accepted by them. Bigfoot/Sasquatch does not need for us to prove anything to the world; but can we prove ourselves worthy of them? What Autumn is proposing includes awareness, openness to new experience and the “unknown,” a participation in the world rather than against it. We'd bet anything that she is largely right–that it is more important to be sensitive to the reality of Sasquatch than to “hunt” them.

We say: by all means, get out there in the field. Seek encounters. Find evidence where it may be. Show the world that Sasquatch is real. But, don't do it at the expense of the witnesses or the Creature or your own human dignity (hint, hint, GCBRO!). Seek to find the natural ways in yourself--this will bring you closer, and make your research all the more effective. Field research IS important, but we must always consider tactics and whether they actually work. What will bring us into the Mystery, rather than bringing the mystery, diluted, dead or corrupted, to us? We are all "witnesses," if we open our eyes without presumption. And if we are to be "researchers," we should be careful not to put the cart before the horse, our presuppositions over what actually IS.

Autumn was a repeated childhood witness, with her mother, on the family's rural Washington land. These were encounters demonstrative of habituated interaction with the Creatures, as documented in her mother's book, VALLEY OF THE SKOOKUM. At the age of 16 Autumn herself became dedicated to the field of serious Bigfoot/Sasquatch research, eventually founding the Oregon Bigfoot organization and website, and hosting the show, Mysterious Encounters. The latter show was produced by Doug Hajicek of White Wolf Entertainment (Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science), for the Outdoor Life Network, 2003-2004.

Going to the dictionary, we find...
re·search
Etymology: Middle French recerche, from recercher to go about seeking, from Old French recerchier, from re- + cerchier, sercher to search; Date: 1577
1 : careful or diligent search
2 : studious inquiry or examination; especially: investigation or experimentation aimed at the discovery and interpretation of facts, revision of accepted theories or laws in the light of new facts, or practical application of such new or revised theories or laws
3 : the collecting of information about a particular subject
and...
wit·ness
Etymology: Middle English witnesse, from Old English witnes knowledge, testimony, witness, from 2 wit; Date: before 12th century
1 : attestation of a fact or event: testimony
2 : one that gives evidence; specifically: one who testifies in a cause or before a judicial tribunal
3 : one asked to be present at a transaction so as to be able to testify to its having taken place
4 : one who has personal knowledge of something
5 : a: something serving as evidence or proof: sign; b: public affirmation by word or example of usually religious faith or conviction

A Few Other Views on This Matter... LINKS.

The Blogsquatcher: Autumn Williams' Witness: Allowing researchers access to bigfoot like letting pedophiles into a daycare.
BigFootForums Thread: Autumn Williams says she is no longer a BF researcher, Video Blog "Professional Suicide"
BFRO Forum Thread: Autumn williams hangs up her "Researcher" hat!
Oregon Bigfoot: FEEDBACK Autum has received from supporters.
Skookum Quest diatribe: Autumn Williams melts down. (Scroll down about a page.)
Linda Martin's Bigfoot Sightings: Bigfoot: to Research or Not to Research?
CRYPTOMUNDO posted something on this early Tuesday morning, but now the link is dead. Did they chicken out, or what? All we know is what we can retrieve from the FaceBook posting they did: "Autumn Williams’ Message May Be A Warning Sign. Look more deeply than you have been asked to by the supposed hostile intent of the new videos." OK, Loren, the mystery... thickens.

In any case, think for yourself. We are seriously wondering at this point how this will play out at the Oregon Sasquatch Symposium, coming up in June in Autumn Williams' home town! We'll be there, sitting in the very same room as David Paulides. OMG.

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ANGRY BIGFOOT SPEAKS!

How many more fake blobs and hu-man in monkey suits me have to see? Joker hu-man think he funny, make movie of self in costume, think he fool hu-man. He not fool me. Laugh at Bigfoot? Mess with Squatch? Me know difference between Bigfoot baby and porcupine in tree! Me see shadow or stump and know it shadow or stump! If me see porcupine me eat! But if me see hu-man me go far away. They so stupid and stinky me never imagine actually eat one. I could, but me not going to. They think I "gentle giant" not hurt fly, that why me no eat hu-man. They wrong. Me not hurt human because me just no like, and me know it taste bad like rotten dumpster!

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This blog, save for archival/historical or promotional product images (fair use, for research only), copyright 2010, Bigfoot Books Intergalactic and Steven Streufert. Please feel free to quote with citation and link to this blog included.

BLUE CREEK MOUNTAIN AND BLUFF CREEK BIGFOOT TIMELINE, RESPONSE TO OUR PREVIOUS BLOG ON PAULIDES. Now with January 4th 2010 Update!

In response to an emailed criticism we received regarding our previous post on our experiences with David Paulides of NABS we offer the following response.

One might wish to read our previous post... HERE first.

If you'd rather not read about our DP/NABS soap opera, click on down to the bottom half where we cover the timing of Bigfoot events in that crucial year, 1967. There is more to follow, as we are setting out to document these timeline issues from every source available. Look for that in the months to come!
"Dave Paulides treated me with disrespect. Those insulting things he said and implied about me, to me, are real--he DID say them, accusing me of things I did not do, or exaggerating what I did, just like he accused John Green and Bob Gimlin, really. I did not make any of that stuff up. If only you could see and read the emails he sent to me. He demanded that I not publish or distribute them, and I won't, especially as he wrongly thinks I'm sending his emails to Daniel Perez. It bothered me how much hate he seemed to have for Daniel Perez (who is a good guy), so I looked into it. I gave Daniel an interview shortly after I interviewed Dave, and it seemed to drive Paulides off the deep end. It did indeed confirm to me so many things others had told me, and made me have to re-evaluate the guy's whole methodology and attitude among the BF world. I gave him a chance to reply, and he very rudely cut me off, with insults I did not deserve. If you look at what I wrote it is mostly just me trying to get Dave to see where I was coming from, and then when he did not reply I looked into what he had said and done, and what others had said about him and his works.

I am not the one making slanderous accusations and insinuations against good men like Green. Paulides is... or he was, anyway. He basically accused them of murder, of being liars and frauds, by implication. That is SERIOUS. And when I first got email to that effect from Paulides, and then read more about it from Cryptomundo and BF Times, I decided to look into it even more. When I saw that I was not the only one he had been so rude to I figured someone should speak up. Dave, I think, needs to think twice about how he is acting, and show more respect to others, especially those who have lain the path out before him. I gave him his chance to reply to Perez, and then to me, but he rudely and insultingly rejected both. He cut me off in the middle of what I thought was a civilized conversation that was to be published on this blog. I was left with no other option than to publish what I did already have, and to look into the situation more deeply. I DID think much about just not writing it; but I'd spent all this time already writing to Dave on the timeline subject, and trying to get him to see what I was saying, and I finally decided to just publish it.

Sorry if it offends you. Someone had to say it. I didn't start it, Paulides did. I merely held up the mirror. It is not as you put it, "mean-spirited vindictive rage," but just the cold hard facts of my experience with the guy. I am not acting out of anger, but rather a desire for justice, and for truth. I wasn't about to just take it lying down; I HAD to say something. Why should Dave be able to do and say what he does, and not have someone respond to it? I merely looked at it all with a critical, objective eye, and I wrote about and reported on what I saw.

I think it needed to be said. It is a public matter when Dave is out there saying the things he says. He would not talk to me about any of it after a point. I tried. I don't know why so many are so afraid of saying what they think. Paulides shouldn't be able to just arrogantly walk over people. I think it was Dave who created the discord you speak of when he started going around and implying that Gimlin and Green were liars and murderers. It is THAT I am talking about, more than just Dave's personal behavior or my own interactions with him. It goes beyond personal matters, and that is why I published it.

Why should Paulides be able to go around acting like a playground bully, but I not be able to publish something in response? Be fair. These things go both ways.

He seems to bully others in his demeanor and statements. I've heard about it from a lot of folks. He tries to act smoothly in public, but then disparages them or cuts them off rudely, or insinuates things behind the scenes into the Bigfooting world. Like this 'very dark secret, really' stuff. Like the things he said about Daniel Perez. Like the things he said at Bigfoot Discovery Days about Michael Rugg and others there. Acting like only HE is a REAL researcher, NABS the ONLY professional group, etc. It's there in the stuff I put on the blog entry. He has not said bad things about me *publicly* that I know of, but he still acted like a bully and insulted me for no reason at all. It just left a real sour taste behind, and I didn't feel like leaving it lie and shutting up. Sorry. Everyone is afraid on the playground to speak out against bullying, lest they get 'beaten up.' But someone, somehow, has to speak up, and I did.

Examples? You saw it RIGHT THERE in my blog. A large section in there is not my criticisms, but those of OTHERS. And there are the links for information. Surely you know of Paulides' accusations of Green and Gimlin? Well, you do now, it's right there in my blog. I didn't just cull that from my own feelings. It's out there in the public record. I just collected this stuff and put in it one place with my own thoughts and interactions with the man.

Generally, I think it is arrogance that he displays. He talks down to others, assumes he is somehow the biggest, greatest, most real Bigfooter on the planet. This just bothers me. It needed to be confronted.

Dave has done some really good work which I respect still, so it was disappointing to me that he behaved in the way he did towards me. And I was trying to warn him that such behavior among others puts a bad light on his work and the subject.

Dave Paulides is a public figure, publicly propounding theories, spreading at one time this idea that Green and Gimlin were murderers, disparaging other researchers, etc. Hence, he may be criticized publicly. That is the way debates work. My criticism of him was not ad hominem. It was just a criticism of his massacre theory involvement and treatment of others including myself. You should see all the stuff I COULD have published. I held A LOT back, believe me.

The "Massacre Theory" is where the "CRAP" you speak of lies.

I believe ethics apply across the public/private line. If Dave treated me badly that is only one small thing, but that it involved Green and Gimlin, and got out publicly on Cryptomundo, one of the largest sites on the internet for this subject, made it a very public issue. This, too, compounded itself upon the festering controversy already going over MK Davis' more recent ideas. In short order it was all over the global internet, and Paulides did nothing like apologize to those guys. You should see the horrible slander, even coming to the point of implied death threats against Green, that can be found on the GCBRO forums, and from folks like "Monster Hunter" Jim Lansdale.

I am simply acting in their defense, really, of Green and Gimlin, as that is where I started talking to Dave in the first place. My own grievances with the guy came later, and pale in significance. So, I am really blogging against the Massacre Theory, and only secondarily saying Dave should not have said those things he did. I am not trying to be the "playground monitor," as you suggest, but I do have a right to speak up against injustice and slander.

If I went around to Bigfooters saying to various people, "privately," that [YOU] were a murderer and a liar, would you not think that wrong? Would you not want someone to speak in your defense? Would you like to be bullied into feeling like you had to take a lie detector test and sign some paper to prove that you are the good person that you are? Would you want your entire sincere life's work and character questioned in that way? No, you wouldn't, I'd bet.

Hence, it was Dave who got in there and committed grievous insults against the living and the dead. It is a huge insult to accuse someone like Green, putting him in the position of having to take a polygraph test (and at his age!) just to prove his innocence. I'd think that, before putting out this "crap" kind of accusation, some decent evidence could have first been assembled. There was nothing convincing at all put forth.

There will be unrest in the Bigfoot world where bullshit resides, as I will comment upon it, plain and simple.

And no, I was well aware that Henry May came up with the term "massacre," or is credited as doing so.
But I don't understand what difference it makes WHAT you call it. If you say that a Bigfoot family was ruthlessly slaughtered by certain individuals, and then covered up with backhoes and a lifetime of lying, then what SHOULD it be called?

I looked into it as deeply as I could, even spending over a month interviewing MK Davis. I also talked with MK back in June for over three hours about this issue. Back then he was very specific. Since he has backed off. I was unable to be at the Ohio Conference you mention, unfortunately, and never found a way to obtain the recordings of MK announcing his new theory. In any case, I'd thought that MK's statements were made more in the private after-conference talks. There is a difference. MK is a gentleman about it. Dave was kind of rude and mean-spirited. So, I am not really too bothered by MK. I like the guy, actually. But these ideas--they are poison.

Please explain to me why calling it a Massacre is any different from saying that there was a slaughter, a killing, an ending of life, or whatever?

How is what I am doing "tabloid" journalism? I've spent some good part of the last few months trying to get to the bottom of this. I've done PLENTY of "homework" on this issue. Check my current blog post [this one, below]. You will see the tip of the iceberg of evidence that there could not have been and was not any kind of massacre at Bluff Creek. I feel I have honestly inquired about it at great length with the two principle proponents of the issue. I also spoke with Loren Coleman and Daniel Perez. I have also spoken at great length with many others who have felt Paulides' "wrath," including the organizers of the Yakima Round-Up, Linda Martin of Bigfoot Sightings, etc. I don't know why you would consider my honest and straightforward, though admitedly also personal, presentation of the issue as somehow sensationalizing the thing. How, now?

I am not trying to "damage" Bigfoot research. I am doing what I am doing for the GOOD of research. I think this "massacre" or WHATEVER you call it is just wholly toxic, and yes, an EVIL kind of theory. Whether you call it a massacre or not, these guys are calling the ones they claim were there "killers." It is an especially serious accusation, as BOTH of those guys  believe Sasquatch to be HUMAN. That is ALL I am pointing out about it, and it matters not what term is placed on it. Gun shots, blood, guts, skins, bloody hands, it all adds up... "massacre." If not, what do MK, Dave, You? think it was, then???

Thanks for talking. I am thinking about it, deeply. I did not want to publish what I did the way I did, but I felt drawn in, as it was necessary, the more I thought about it. I had wanted it to be a nice talk between me and Dave, but no, I guess not."

Steve

Bigfoot Books

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An interesting comment was left by MATTHEW MONEYMAKER of the BFRO on our previous blog post. Read it with our comments HERE, or read the full prior post HERE. Or for your convenience HERE:

"Wow ... I must say I would not have predicted that Paulides would buy into the 'massacre' nonsense. It's so laughably absurd ...  I can only assume that Paulides has such a boner for making a sensational, high-profile revelation, as a direct result of his detective prowess ... that he unduly inflates the likelihood of situations that would put him in the position to do that. His drive to become the great detective who cracked the case, has made him a bit irrational. So far he has bragged a lot about being the first to do various types of investigations ... that he was not the first to do. It's pretty amazing how much he claims to be a trail blazer along such well worn trails ... and now thinks the "massacre" idea has some validity.
I've always been struck by Paulides consistent misrepresentations that he's the only full-time, professional, sponsored bigfoot investigator in existence... He somehow thinks that his training puts him in a different league than other investigators. If we're gonna play that game, then I'll inform him that lawyers are better, smarter investigators than cops."
--Matt Moneymaker

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And now: Notes on the 1967 Timeline of events from Onion Mountain, to Blue Creek Mountain, and finally the Bluff Creek Patterson-Gimlin Film.
These events note the actions of John Green mainly during the time, but also cover the locations of the main figures--Bob Titmus, Roger Patterson, Bob Gimlin and Rene Dahinden--accused in the "Bluff Creek Massacre Theory." These locations of individuals and timings of events completely DISPROVE that theory.

From our notes, taken so far mostly from Green's SASQUATCH: APES AMONG US:

* FEBRUARY 1967: Green and Dahinden head south, visit Roger Patterson, visit Willow Creek and hear of recent BF "activities" on Bluff Creek, meet Syl McCoy

* "LATE AUGUST 1967" (not too specific): Syl McCoy of Willow Creek calls Green at home re. tracks found on Onion Mountain

* Green contacts Harold McCullough for tracking dog (White Lady)
* Drives south with McCullough, Dale Moffit and dog, sees tracks
* Meets Al Hodgson of Willow Creek, also Mrs. Bud Ryerson, drives home to Canada (probably a two day drive).

* Even LATER AUGUST 1967: First day after getting home Green is called re. Blue Creek Mountain tracks by Bud Ryerson, contractor on the Bluff Creek project.

* SAME AFTERNOON: on a plane with Moffit, Rene Dahinden and White Lady, calls Al Hodgson for provisions to be at Orleans airport.

* NIGHT: Arrival at BCM site, dog reacts but they don't want to track in the dark.

* NEXT DAY, MORNING: No dog response

* EVENING: Return to Orleans for phone calls, return to Bluff Creek area with pilot, go to older Onion Mountain tracks, find new 12-inch prints.

* NEXT DAY: To BCM again, 2 small sets one large of tracks found (590 counted not destroyed by road activity)

* VAGUE ("2 days") (Now EARLY SEPTEMBER): Don Abbot arrives from B.C. Museum; they hear word of sandbar tracks just downstream from future PGF site. THIS IS THE SANDBAR AREA, apparently, where the film that MK is looking at came from.

* Flight back to Canada

* SEPTEMBER: Patterson on BF expedition in Mt. Saint Helens area. Upon return home hears that Al Hodgson has called his wife about the tracks found in Aug-Sept. in Bluff Creek area. Begins to plan expedition.

* VARYING DATES, either OCTOBER 1st P-G departure (Murphy), or "A little over a week" (Patterson) or just "a few days" (Green) before filming. So... sometime between October 2nd and October 21st Patterson and Gimlin are in Bluff Creek.

* OCTOBER 20TH: PATTERSON-GIMLIN FILM SHOT
* OCTOBER 21ST: They hit the road home (a full day's drive)

* OCTOBER 22ND: FILM FIRST VIEWED IN YAKIMA. Present: Green comes from Canada; Dahinden was in SF at filming time, promoting the tracks found BCM/OM, cannot get to film site due to weather; Titmus has come from Kitimat, Canada as well (ALL OF THEM WERE IN OTHER AREAS AT TIME OF FILMING).

* SOMETIME AFTER, BEFORE TITMUS ARRIVES: Jim McClarin goes to site. Lyle Laverty also at site, photographs tracks. Others also witness, mostly locals to the area/forest workers

* LATER OCTOBER to EARLY NOVEMBER: TITMUS in Bluff Creek area for a number of days, finds film site and casts tracks NINE OR TEN DAYS AFTER OCT. 20TH FILMING.

* JUNE 1968: After snows clear and roads reopen, John Green at film site with McClarin, makes film, documents dimensions.

So, the timeline is really pretty clear. Green was in the Bluff to Willow Creek area three times that summer-fall. A busy guy.

IF there were a "conspiracy" how come McClarin, Laverty and the others also independently at the film site DID NOT SEE ANY EVIDENCE of the "Massacre," blood, guts or bones? Or were they, too, lassoed into the inner circle of "liars"? Implausible.

Here's another thing. We think MK Davis and others are exaggerating the "RED" colors of the film(s). We live in the area of Bluff Creek, and have seen the film site on October 20th, August and other times of the year. Really, there is little pure red in the area, save for the poison oak, in the fall. There is A LOT of reddish brown however, as in the ferns that die off. I have them in my yard, and it looks a lot like what MK is calling red. They are NOT red, however. I am going to ask my Natural History buff friend about this. Mostly the trees are not red, as in the eastern USA, but rather YELLOW, and then they wither to LIGHT-TO-REDDISH BROWN. So, if MK is exaggerating the reddish tones found in brown, then he is certainly also exaggerating dirt and mud into... "blood."

RELATED LINKS:

CRYPTOMUNDO blogs about this and previous entry on BIGFOOT'S BLOG!
BIGFOOT MASSACRE MESS ENDS DECADE

Squatchopedia PGF TIMELINE.

Bill Miller's great indictment of the "Theory,"
The Massacre at Bluff Creek.

Another earlier CRYPTOMUNDO article,
Bigfoot Massacre Theorist, John Green and Coverup

And read this: AN EARLY ARTICLE BY THE BLOGSQUATCHER

Images: Blue Creek Mountain, tracks and Green investigating; Titmus at Hyampom, Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin with track casts, John Green's book and his cast collection;, John Green at Bluff Creek with the dog White Lady. Do you really think these lifelong investigators "massacred" a Bigfoot family? Come on! If your do, then you must throw out nearly all of Bigfoot history in North America. What more convincing theory do you have to replace all this with?

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BONUS FEATURE, UPDATE!!! The following was in reply to the talk above, it is our further reply, done 4 January 2010. If you care, this little missive lays it all out there, and nails it shut. We really do wish to NEVER mention the word "Massacre" again, though surely it will rear its ugly head again.

MORE BLUFF CREEK BIGFOOT MASSACRING: An Open Letter to XXXX

Well XXXX [NAME REMOVED],

I sent you that email because (don't you remember?), YOU had brought up the issues to me. We had a lengthy discussion about them by email, right?

You're certainly entitled to your opinions, and I frankly don't mind at all. Reading your email did, though, make me feel kind of ill in the pit of my gut. Such anger, such rage (as you've put it earlier). If I worried I'd offend someone I'd never be able to write anything. There would always be someone to take offense; and even if I wrote innocuous drivel someone would be offended by that.

But look, my "interviews" were all specifically entitled "Interview and Discussion." I made this clear to all to whom I talked, that I wanted to engage in discussion of issues. It is too easy to just take the words from the horses' mouths, let people say only what they want to say with no challenge or discussion, sticking to only safe and comfortable topics. I am aware of journalistic conventions. I simply choose to not follow this idea of the non-existent objective interviewer. On my blog, in the actions I take there, I am engaged as one investigating the world of Bigfoot every bit as much as those that I am interviewing. There is no inherent hierarchy in discourse, save if you are a fascist. The perspective of both participants is inevitably there, and cannot be erased. If the world needed yet another interview of Paulides or Davis talking about the very same things they have already said and talked about then I would do such an interview. The fact is that I wanted to explore NEW territory. To a healthy and inquisitive mind this should not be a problem. Don't express my "own damned opinion," you say??? Whom are YOU to say such a thing? It is my blog, I will say what I like. I am not here to serve you nor the ego of someone who will not openly talk about things that matter. It only reveals their own weaknesses, not mine, if they cannot reply sensibly.

In my interview with Joshua Blu Buhs everything went civilly and with jocular conviviality, even when I was challenging him. He didn't mind, and I think his responses challenged me to think better. That is a productive discourse. And, interestingly, he is NOT part of the Bigfoot community. What does it say about certain bigfooters if they cannot engage, if they have such thin skin that they react with outrage like I feel Paulides did? What is WRONG here? MK Davis agreed to the interview I did, and its format. It was all revealed to him BEFORE it even began what I was going to ask. In what way did I transgress? I only "laid my cards on the table" after he started hedging away and sending responses that had nothing to do with my questions. How do YOU know "nobody likes" my kind of approach??? I have had plenty of readers praising the work I've done, especially for its unique approaches. And how in the world do you get that my honest questions are expressive of "cynical personal opinions"? WHAT so-called CYNICISM have I expressed? NONE. It is called: a critical attitude. I am very skeptical, however, about lunatic theories that have no basis at all in fact, especially if they damage the veracity of the subject at hand. They were not "driven away" by my questions; they had certain areas where they would not talk, that is all. The ones who wouldn't talk preferred to remain silent rather than speaking out sensibly about their own prior ideas. I can't help that. And they have all had every chance to rebut anything subsequent to their interviews, and I've made that utterly clear.

All of my questions to Dave in the discussion/interview were civil and respectful. He allowed me some room to challenge certain ideas, and I did so. Everything went fine. I spent over a week of serious work making him look good, editing his responses for a better presentation (spelling, punctuation, a number of grammatical issues), and thinking generally how to engage him in a hearty and interesting discussion. He was NOT open and welcoming of certain questions, as you suggest. Frankly, I found it a bit annoying to have to tip-toe around what I sensed were his angry zones, to not step on his toes, to get him to talk about things beyond his straight PR line for NABS. He was open enough to do the interview, which I appreciated. However, once I said that I was also talking to Perez about an interview he really got outraged and outrageous, in my opinion. I mean, I put in all this effort and once I published the interview/discussion, which I had presented to him in full for his approval, all I got is a blunt "DISAPPOINTED," with some rather vociferous accusations coming from him that were absolutely TOTALLY UNPROVOKED, TOTALLY UNCALLED FOR. A couple of weeks later, when I published the Perez interview, he just couldn't handle it. He was obviously already angry over NOTHING, but then utterly blew his top when I sent an email to Perez saying that Dave had asked me what his (Perez') sources were for P&G going to Murray Field to send the film. Dave says, implies basically, but clearly, that Gimlin must be lying about this. This is just discussion, not at all personal (save for Bob)--I just wanted to know, like Dave, what the source was. But rather than join the inquiry he'd rather dismiss Perez and insult him. And then he blew his top and started berating ME. For what? NOTHING. Perhaps he is jealous of Daniel's obviously superior knowledge and experience in this field of Bigfoot?

I did not betray personal email from Dave to Daniel. I did not set Dave up. I didn't do anything but promote his product and ask a few sensible questions. I had never said one bad thing about Paulides to people at this point, and yet I had HEARD such bad things uttered constantly by MANY in the field. I tried to remain neutral, but Dave DRAGGED me into the mess. I am not going to just sit by and watch as someone acts the way he did, accusing me of disloyalty, backstabbing, dishonesty (even implying that I'd try to rip him off for his products), having ulterior motives, etc. It was HE WHO SAID THESE ORIGINAL NASTY THINGS, not me. Regarding Paulides' work: YES, a lot of the stuff he has done is very good, and intriguing. However, much of it is NOT original, and he does not GIVE CREDIT nor much of any citation for things that he has obviously gotten from other writers and researchers. I can prove this by textual analysis, and I will. A vastly superior book on Native American Bigfoot culture is RAINCOAST SASQUATCH. It puts Tribal Bigfoot down several notches, in my own humble opinion. Perhaps it is Dave, not John Green, who needs to take a lie detector test: Did you (or did you not) secretly derive ___ from John Green's books, and use it without citation? OK, just kidding.

In what I published I was actually just reiterating much of what is out there in the PUBLIC RECORD. Many had already spoken out. I had some criticisms of Dave's reported behavior in public, of his apparent arrogance (one researcher told me he has an ego the size of Everest), of some of the things in his books and blogs that are factually misconceived. But I also felt he had done me serious personal insult--and I wrote about all of that stuff. That is all. I didn't want to, but felt I had to at that point, especially as I felt someone should have the courage to speak out. I have actually received WAY more praise than criticism over what I wrote.

I cannot help it if you are older than me. I can't have been in this field longer than someone of a previous generation, really. Patterson was dead when I was a little child. What are you, in your sixties right? I have been interested in Bigfoot since childhood. I got involved in studying it seriously after I finished graduate school. Before that I simply never had the time. In the last ten years I have read nearly every book on the subject out there, all the major ones and most minor ones with any merit, many more than once, and I have studied deeply in certain areas (such as Bluff Creek). I don't, surely, know everything, and I admit it--that is why I admire and give credit to people like Daniel Perez and Loren Coleman, or John Green. Had I done this work in school I would only have to write the dissertation to get a Ph.D. I have studied all the major web sites, and read much of the worthy and fine content on yours. I have seen nearly every available Bigfoot documentary and feature film. I have gone to a number of conferences. What more do you WANT from me? Because I was not schmoozing with Dahinden or whatever I am somehow not allowed to speak or comment? Shall I kiss your ring before I am allowed? I am perfectly well informed on the issues on which I speak, and I try to the best of my ability to get to the truth in those matters. I do not just ramble or speak off the cuff, or with rage, or whatever, as you imply.

I communicate widely with people into Bigfoot, but of course I was not there to be involved in the early days. I have always respected John Green, and meeting him and seeing him in action only proved it to me again a hundred times that he is a good and honorable man, not one to live a life of lies and deception. Same goes for Bob Gimlin. Surely, they are not perfect; neither are you, nor am I myself. I could not get involved with the folks you mention, as they were distant, older, out of my sphere of interaction. I did not know when I opened my store in Willow Creek that I would suddenly become part of the world of Bigfoot Researchers. But it happened, and I've found it fascinating. From there I have slowly gotten involved with people I'd before thought of as somewhat legendary. I do NOT advocate "genuflecting" before anyone, not Gimlin or whomever; nor will I accept your silly implication that I bow before your own "seniority" in these areas of study. One can be older, but not necessarily wiser. There is no way you can criticize my activities based on the length of time I've been involved. I am capable. I have a rich and deep and ongoing education and breadth of knowledge. I was trained in academia to utilize logic and critical acumen, and I have studied Philosophy, Science, and contemporary Critical Theory, not to mention Psychology and Social Science. I have two advanced post-graduate degrees. I don't mean to brag, because I really don't care, but my qualifications are actually quite high, whatever the intellectual endeavor. Since the early 1980s I have made it a serious back burner project to study "paranormal" and fringe thought. I am looking at it now in a social, political and philosophical culture-criticism context. I am working on a book on these issues, involving Bigfoot.

Hence, I have been into these things basically since the time YOU had your XXXX [date removed for privacy] sighting that got YOU into this stuff. Since you said in an online interview that you had absolutely NO interest in crypto topics prior to that, then, actually, I have been doing "THIS" longer than you have! Well, not just in the area of Bigfoot, I'll admit it. BUT, I HAVE BEEN DOING BIGFOOT LONGER BY FAR THAN DAVE PAULIDES, if you want to venture into that kind of territory. Who are you to question that? Just because you've had a particular more narrow focus longer than I have? No, sorry. If you want to imply I don't know what I am talking about, PRESENT THE EVIDENCE! Where have I made an error? I have confirmed everything I can from the wide variety of sources. I have consumed the vast bulk of credible (and sometimes incredible) information on Bigfoot that is available. There is no way you can say what you have said and back it up. Thus, it is merely you trying to insult me. OK, fine, whatever. I really don't care what you say about me. It's OK.

These "massacre" slanders out there, though, are toxic and evil, and I only felt the more convinced of this truth after observing Gimlin in action at the Yakima Round-up. I like MK, from my interactions with him, but his ideas of the last couple of years are, I believe, utterly unfounded. And it has the sad consequence that they amount the to virtual tarring and feathering of good people. How can he say the things he does without some at least slightly decent evidence? And there IS NO DECENT PROOF of a bloodbath at Bluff Creek. That Paulides would fall for such crap disturbed me deeply, as I'd really enjoyed Hoopa Project in most ways. I was at least glad to have him working in the area where I live and getting to some good, new information. It was only later that I started to get folks telling me stuff about him, but when I got that "dark secret" email from him and saw it on Cryptomundo and in Bigfoot Times, I really had to re-evaluate my position. The interview was me trying to see the good side of Dave. I believe I showed a lot of that. Didn't I? Well, I really did sincerely try.

In fact, here, it seems to me that it is YOU who are consumed with rage and vindictiveness. Look, it was DAVE who was the "angry man with no social graces," and it is you here who are being intolerant of the views of others. I am not angry. I feel the truth has been offended. Logic has been offended. History has been offended. Good reputations of others have been damaged by bad theories. I am trying to correct those things where I detect the BS. There is a lot of it in bigfooting, I'm sorry to say... a lot of thin-skinned folks trying to prove their positions rather than investigate the truth. Thankfully, this is not all of us.

I have plenty of researchers on my side. I'll stick with them. I have plenty of good readers who know what I am doing and why, and frankly, I could not do a good job if I did not eventually say things that would offend some people. I KNEW you would react to what I wrote, as I'd seen you in other public forums jump all over people who even dared question certain sacred cows. What "damage" to my blog or myself do you think I need to rectify? I have only revealed the truth, as I saw it--I have not lied or distorted ANYTHING. The more proper question is, how is Dave, how MK, going to repair the mess that THEY have stirred up? I have no worries, I'm not invested in some stake here--I am only exploring an area of interest that I find interesting. The blog is a hobby. No one pays me a dollar to do it. I will continue to explore and find the truth to the best of my ability even if I do end up tipping over a few sacred cows, offending some already borderline individuals. If you weren't so biased, you'd see that IT IS I WHO AM THE SENSIBLE ONE HERE! But since Dave does not want me to forward his emails, I cannot prove it to you.

I wouldn't talk about this stuff publicly...
[LARGE EDIT OF PERSONAL ISSUES BEST LEFT UNSAID]
Huh? Look in the mirror...???

Do you really believe that Green is a wretched life-long liar, that Gimlin is a murderous glad-handing fraud? Or what? Do you cling to MK and Dave just because they support the "HUMAN hypothesis," or what?

Can't we all just get along?
Best, really.
Please cool it,
Bigfoot Books

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ANGRY BIGFOOT SPEAKS:

"If you cant take it, then don't dish it out, hu-man!

Me go back to hibernate now. Grrr."


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This blog's text is copyright 2009 Bigfoot Books Intergalactic. Quote freely but please provide a citation and link back to this blog. Thanks!

Interview with David Paulides of NABS, Release of Ray Crowe's THE TRACK RECORD Newsletter on CD

NEWS: THE TRACK RECORD Newsletter Reissued on CD!
A Discussion with DAVID PAULIDES of NABS.

David Paulides and North America Bigfoot Search (http://www.nabigfootsearch.com/) have just released the collected, complete 174-issue run of the newsletter of the Western Bigfoot Society and Ray Crowe, The Track Record (view it on Amazon through this link), on a computer-viewable CD (an Adobe Reader PDF format document). Bigfoot Books decided to have a talk with Mr. Paulides about this exciting new resource, Ray Crowe, his bigfooting work, and about Bigfoot topics in general. This interview was conducted by email in mid-October, 2009, and has been only very slightly edited for format.

Dave is the author of two notable and acclaimed, though also sometimes controversial books, The Hoopa Project and Tribal Bigfoot. The first was winner of the 2008 Crytozoological Book of the Year, awarded by Cryptomundo.com. The second one expands upon the principles of the first, extending its range to other areas of Northern California, Southern Oregon and beyond to Minnesota and Oklahoma. In both you will find new methodologies and sightings, as well as interesting theories on such matters as the possibility that the Bigfoot species is more human than previously thought, and not an "ape."
READ ON--this isn't just an advertisement!

Note: Dave specifically stated that he did not want to discuss certain "controversial" issues, and we have endeavored to respect that wish. He does, though, bring them up a bit all on his own.

Note, too: All colored text parts in this blog are tested and legitimate Bigfoot site links--check them out for more information, or just roll over them with your mouse to see the site address. Many of them are links to the fine Squatchopedia Wiki pages.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Hello Mr. Paulides. The Track Record on CD is an amazing recovery of a lost resource for the Bigfooting field in the 21st Century. Thanks to you and NABS (North America Bigfoot Search) for doing it! Now, for those readers who may not know the man and his influence, could you tell us a bit about Ray Crowe and his Bigfooting organization, research and newsletter, and perhaps what his approach to Bigfoot research was?

DAVID PAULIDES: Ray established the Western Bigfoot Society out of his used bookstore in Hillsboro, Oregon. He had a lifelong interest in crypto topics and soon started a newsletter that he called, “The Track Record.” Ray was one of those people that got along with everyone and that served him well for making and keeping contacts throughout the world. His passion was bigfooting but he entertained items that included UFO's, chupacabras, Loch Ness Monster and many other crypto topics; but, his true love was bigfoot. He produced the newsletter for 16 years, 3000 pages that included information from all parts of the world and every state in the U.S. NABS saw the value in the document and when Ray decided to sell his research, we immediately bought that and all rights to his writings. Two years later and after hundreds of hours of documentation, we released The Track Record on CD along with an 80 page WORD document that is a master index of those 3000 pages.

Nothing compares to these documents anywhere in the crypto world. We knew this would be a valuable research tool for NABS but part of our organizational objective is to give back to the bigfoot world and assist researchers. There were actually several members of Ray's organization who heard what we were doing and tried to encourage us not to do it, they wanted to keep this to themselves...

 Ray had a policy to print just about anyone's sighting. He didn't go into the field and validate everything but he did go out and conduct field research. He was friends with many of the old time researchers and several of their reports included in the TR are very fascinating. I remember that when I originally met Ray and expressed my admiration for his work he told me "keep your skepticals on." I did ask him what his views on bigfoot were, meaning did they migrate, were there different species, did they have special abilities, etc. Ray looked directly at me and stated, "The more you read, the more people you interview, and the more time you spend in the field, the more you realize you really don't know much about our big friend." I think Ray was right! The Track Record is truly a bigfoot researcher’s encyclopedia of information. Ray painted the picture and NABS put the frame on it.

Image, David Paulides in his formally-attired author photo.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Yes, I've always been impressed with that “Wear Your Skepticals” slogan on every issue, especially as during Ray's time active in the field he was perhaps kind of like a bigfooting Art Bell (original host of Coast-to-Coast AM), operating a clearing house for information on things that otherwise people mostly would just not have heard about. In the few issues I'd read before seeing your new CD version it seemed to me that Ray was covering some of the “weird” side of Cryptozoology, often moving more into what we'd have to call the "Paranormal." But then, he was operating at a crucial time (when did he get started?), when the old hoopla over Bigfoot had faded somewhat, but the internet age had not yet begun to take hold. Groups like NABS and BFRO enable, like never before, sightings reports and information sharing, not to mention the myriad regional groups, blogs, conferences and online radio shows.

Also, there seems to be a much higher level of technology and scrutiny applied to reports now, for example with NABS using affidavits and BFRO (Bigfoot Field Researchers Organization) excluding a large number of unconfirmed or “strange” reports from what they will put on their public web site. In your view, aside from its obvious historical value, how does the Western Bigfoot Society research and newsletter hold up today? How has the field changed from the time of its founding until now? And how have views of and approaches to the Bigfoot phenomenon evolved? Also, what sorts of evidence or sightings did Ray Crowe himself have?

DAVID PAULIDES: Remember, Ray represented all views, researchers, etc. Example, John Green hates Peter Byrne and yet both contributed greatly to the newsletter. Ray was able to walk that fence line so well that all research was uniquely represented. Ray's newsletter was something that was greatly needed at the time. It was a method to dispense information across North America before the internet. There still isn't a bigfoot search engine anywhere that has a searchable internet database for sightings. There are several that exist for states and counties but, there isn't one single location where you can look-up "brown colored bigfoot" sightings… until now--the TR's index has this ability.

To the best of my knowledge Ray never actually had a sighting. He had many unusual incidents happen to him but I think the sighting always eluded him, as it has many researchers, including myself.

The sightings in The Track Record actually hold up better than almost anything we are currently reading. Most witness descriptions mimic much of what NABS has found today, there is a distinct human quality to bigfoot. The more we read the historical record of sightings, the more you realize that witnesses have stated that the biped is very human, and, this is much of what you find in the TR.

The bigfoot field has changed greatly since Ray first introduced the newsletter. Peter Byrne was the first researcher to enter the field with significant funding and brought a level of professionalism and protocol to the arena. Since Peter, there have been very few researchers who have been able to commit to the research on a full time basis and this is what is needed if you want to make significant contributions. Probably the one group that made significant contributions to research without any funding was the "Bay Area Group," headed by George Haas. Where Ray was the absolute expert at documenting and dispensing information, George and his team did some incredible research on a shoe string budget. Much of their research still is extremely credible and timely and we are shocked it didn't get more publicity at the time. NABS is posting all of George's Bigfoot Bulletins on our website.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Isn’t Haas’ and the Bay Area Group’s (B.A.G.) The Bigfoot Bulletin the first newsletter on Sasquatch, starting in the late sixties? Before that there wasn’t much being published aside from Ivan Sanderson, John Green, and Roger Patterson’s book. The seventies were a heyday for Bigfoot, but a lot of that was kitschy pop-cultural stuff--even though most of the early foundational Bigfoot books were published at that time. Arising out of this period and the lassitude of the 1980s we had Ray Crowe’s work arise, and then Daniel Perez’ The Bigfoot Times (publication starting in 1998, and still at it today, despite the internet). The Track Record can then be seen as an important transitional effort, bridging the past and its laboriously typed and cut-and-pasted publications sent to very small groups of the interested few to today’s slick and widely read web sites and glossy Hancock House-style books. Since the late 1990s there’s been a virtual explosion of these publications, and Bigfoot is seen on TV, with its myriad cable specialty channels, more than ever before. It is difficult to find anyone now who does not know at least the rudiments of the subject; even though what they often know is just the myths and stories of hoaxes.

By way of example, my own humble Bigfoot’s bLog has garnered over 7,000 site hits in only the first six months or so I’ve been monitoring. I don’t know the numbers of readers for Crowe’s original Track Record--do you? I would bet the circulation was fairly small, representing even more clearly how much dedication it took to produce it. Would you say, then, that The Track Record represents a kind of bridge to the current era? It seems significant to me that, as you say, the newsletter represented so many researchers from beyond the core group of the Western Bigfoot Society. I mean, John Green basically stopped writing books after Apes among Us. So it is important that he is represented in The Track Record during the time that preceded a work like Meet the Sasquatch, and his appearance at meet-ups such as the 2003 Willow Creek International Bigfoot Symposium.

Do you think that this semi-underground newsletter publishing, and the small groups that made them, kept Bigfooting alive during a period where serious interest and research could have been buried and lost in the somewhat foul wave of popular cultural exploitation? It seems that one can trace a lineage, from the early “elders,” to the newsletters and groups, and then a handing off to the modern period and new generation of the internet explosion and a sophisticated, new NABS/BFRO-type pursuit of the subject. Also, not having been able to read The Track Record until now, save in a strange photocopied book assemblage that has since been stolen from the Willow Creek Library, I wasn’t aware that so many notable Bigfooting figures had published in the newsletter. How much of it was Ray Crowe’s writings, how much reader and sighting submissions, and how much consisted of writings from the more known, professional-type researchers of the time?

And also, as you mention it, would you say that Ray himself would agree with your and NABS’ theories about the humanness of the Sasquatch? When you quoted Crowe saying the more we look at the Bigfoot phenomenon the more we realize how little we know about it (“him”?), does that imply that the more we look the more we see it as a being that is no mere animal, that it has mysterious or maybe even more human ways? And do you intend, perhaps, to publish the Haas newsletter in some non-internet way, like you have done with Crowe’s?

DAVID PAULIDES: Peter Byrne kept professional investigations in our field alive when he received funding for his project. There's been a long line of amateur and con artists that have entered the Bigfoot arena, but there have been very professional approaches to research. It's really not hard to understand why many stay away from our field of study. Just go to a conference, read newsletters and you see the amount of jealousy, back stabbing and outright lies that some people make about others, it's embarrassing. As I've told everyone who will listen, DO NOT believe ANYTHING you read about NABS or our people unless you read it on our website or you hear me say it. The last 9 months has been a continuous series of lies, fabrications and exaggerations about us by people who call themselves "researchers" perpetuating these myths. No, you won't hear us respond to these ridiculous accusations and we won't be intimidated into backing away from research into areas that need a professional approach. We have resources, personnel and access to technology and professionals that no other group has, and, with that, we have had many things given to us because of our approach to the topic and people's belief in our cause.

The Haas newsletters are posted on our website, free. They are only a fraction of the size of The Track Record so we have the ability to post them, http://www.nabigfootsearch.com/.
[Ed. note: GO HERE, they're great!: http://www.nabigfootsearch.com/Bigfootbulletin.html.

[Ed. note, paraphrase: And re. the question as to whether the B.A.G. newsletter was the first, Dave responds:] I'm actually not sure. [And re. the circulation stats for the original The Track Record newsletter, Dave responds:] Do you? No--don't know. [Re. the “humanness question” Dave responds:] I think this was explained fully in Tribal Bigfoot. [Ed. OK, folks! Go out and get yourself a copy of the book—it is quite interesting, and extends the unique approaches found in his great first book, The Hoopa Project. One thing: in an earlier email Mr. Paulides clarified that he proposes that the Sasquatch is possibly part of the human gene tree, a closer relative to us than to apes, but not exactly human in the same way we are.]

BIGFOOT BOOKS: A few more questions, then. Let's not forget that Ray is still alive and kicking. What is he up to now, and why did he retire? I know he had some health issues, but how can one get Bigfoot out of the bloodstream, so to speak?

DAVID PAULIDES: Ray did have some serious medical issues and I believe that he is living in an assisted living home in northern Oregon.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: On the “Squatchopedia.com” website there is a mention of Tom Biscardi funding and producing The Track Record newsletter for a while, in its last days. Do you know of this, and what was Biscardi's role in producing or directing the publication, if any?

DAVID PAULIDES: Ray was having problems funding the newsletter and Biscardi stepped in at some point and started to subsidize it at some level. I suppose it gave him more access but the newsletter and its content didn't change much.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: It’s so great that you've rescued these newsletters from possible oblivion! Comparatively, I always wonder what was in the Rene Dahinden archives, but we see next to nothing being released to the bigfooting community by his sons and whomever else may have inherited them. The Bigfoot Bulletin stuff on your website is a great addition, too. Thanks! What else besides The Track Record was contained in the Ray Crowe materials and archives? Was there any interesting evidence, footprint casts, hair or photos, cultural items and other stuff that might be released by NABS?

DAVID PAULIDES: We have dozens of letters from Rene and probably more from Ray Wallace. In the future we will release some of these letters as they give the reader quite an insight into the internal politics of this arena. We know that many have bashed Ray Wallace in the past, but I guarantee that the man knew things about Bigfoot that few at the time did. He surely had contacts and insight that few did at the time, to be as accurate on his sightings as he claimed. When you read what Wallace wrote in a time prior to the internet you can readily see that he knew this topic well and he gave much credit to the Native Americans, something that piqued our interest early on.

We also have many letters and sighting reports from John Green. John has always been on the ape side of the fence and has not given much credence to the human side of the genetic scale in regards to Sasquatch. If we do release these letters you will be able to see a very opinionated and sometimes gruff side of Mr. Green that many don't want to see or refuse to acknowledge. Some of these conversations have taken place recently.

This statement is not to bash John, quite the contrary. He entered this arena at a time few would, and, he developed the protocol of requiring affidavits from his bigfoot witnesses, a brilliant move. If a witness to a bigfoot event doesn't want to sign an affidavit, there should be a careful examination of the issue. Everyone who is watching should be asking, "why wouldn't the witness sign an affidavit to what they say they observed," and, I'm sure, this was john's mindset when he initiated that process.

NABS understands John's opinionated attitude; heck, he's been on this topic since before I was born. NABS does believe that every researcher should be open to developments garnered through technological advancements, and, if you haven't kept up with what technology can do, it may be hard to accept and appreciate.
Much of Ray Crowe's casts, hair and other evidence has been loaned for the past 6 months to the Bigfoot Discovery Museum in Felton, which they have put on display.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: So how did Felton (Bigfoot Discovery Days III) go?

DAVID PAULIDES: Scott Nelson is riveting. His evaluation of the Sierra Recordings is very, very convincing that our friends [Bigfoot] use language.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Yes, I found Nelson's cryptolinguistic presentation very interesting at the Yakima Bigfoot Round-Up this year. To many, on first impression, the Sierra Sounds might sound kind of silly, but under Nelson's analysis unique language-like structures and patterns do emerge that make it quite difficult to debunk and dismiss the recordings out of hand.

I'm sorry to have missed your presentation. I still haven't had the chance to see you at any of the conferences. Would you mind briefly telling we who were not there to hear what you talked about, and what new and interesting directions is your and NABS' research taking these days? Are there any other things you'd like to say to the bigfooting community, or at least the readers of Bigfoot Books' blog?

DAVID PAULIDES: NABS is continuing down the path of getting a complete understanding of the Bigfoot hair issue. The public has been collecting the hair for 50 years but little has been done to positively identify and extract DNA. This project is ongoing.

In the past 18 months NABS has been given affidavits and other evidence on a variety of topics that may be construed to be controversial. We do not believe that an individual would perjure themselves over a Bigfoot-related issue, so, we put significant emphasis when someone comes forward with a claim, signs an affidavit and names individuals. I think it would be a gross injustice to the community if we shelved this evidence and didn't investigate.

Many in our arena are not used to professional investigations. It appears that our world revolves around rumor, innuendo and finger pointing. We do not believe in this type of journalism or research. Years ago I was working a child molestation case where the victim named a high profile individual in the community. We worked the case for months without ever notifying anyone of what we were exactly investigating. If the allegation was found to be untrue, we didn't want to ruin the suspects name in the community. The last contact any professional investigator has in any case is with the suspect. The investigator needs to know more about the suspect than he knows about himself, he needs to know every possible answer that may be placed on the table and every excuse that could be used. In the case of the molestation, the suspect gave us information that could exonerate him. We later had the victim come in for a polygraph test. Just as they were getting hooked to the machine, they admitted the allegation was a lie. This is why you don't go public with allegations until you have proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

It would appear that some people in our community call themselves journalists yet they won't post what others send them, and they aren't interested in the facts. They like to bash people over innuendo and they have no belief in the statement, "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." NABS has a policy that we won't cater to tabloid journalism, and we truly don't care what the people who have these sites think about us. We are privately funded, we are polite, professional, and will go deep where others will not.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Dave, for those who have not read your books (or for those who still wonder a bit), could you tell us about the seemingly unlikely course you took going from being a policeman and detective to a Bigfoot hunter and investigator? In the public mind these are seen as kind of... contradictory. What grabbed you and pulled you into the world of the Sasquatch mystery?

DAVID PAULIDES: I have never called myself a bigfoot HUNTER.... They are not contradictory. I made a career of telling the truth, digging deep for facts, building partnerships and respecting people's rights. I know that the background of myself and the people I work with has many in our community intimidated. Most researchers in the bigfoot community have never attended an investigations, interview, or even an evidence collection class; we've done all of this multiple times. Many have the wrong opinion of us; but, almost every one of these people have never met us. I would encourage anyone who wants a realistic view of our organization, go to Hoopa, Happy Camp, Forks of the Salmon, Bena (MN), etc., places where we have conducted research, and ask those people how they were treated. I just got a note today from a witness in Happy Camp who stated NABS was viewed very highly by everyone in that community.

My background in law enforcement and human resources has trained me well to treat everyone with respect. If you treat people the honorable way, they will do the same in return. In two years in Hoopa, word spread quickly that we could be trusted and witnesses were coming to us.

BIGFOOT BOOKS: I fully understand that you did not want to talk about those "controversial" topics. The the bigfooting world can be such a soap opera of gossip and rumors, so much that people seem to forget the REAL GOAL. I must agree, from what I've heard anyway, by my experience in the Bigfoot Books shop here in Willow Creek, from the locals and people from Hoopa--they say good things about you and NABS (as distinguished, especially, from their prior mostly bad experiences with Mr. Tom Biscardi's GABRO group!).

Do you think we are getting closer to proving to the world at large that the Sasquatch exist? And also, what do you think the ramifications and cultural impact might be, especially if the creature proves to be--as you have proposed--much more human than ape?

DAVE PAULIDES: I would hope that in the next year NABS will have clear resolution on the hair issue and DNA can readily identify where on the genetic tree the biped belongs. If the DNA comes back and shows that bigfoot is more human, I think the ramification is minimal. It will put a lid on many of the older bigfoot/sasquatch researchers--we won't hear from them anymore. But, it's obvious that the biped is doing well, sightings are up, the biped is seen across the U.S. and Canada; it's obviously not endangered. The findings will be a minor blip on the news, but, it may initiate universities across North America to take notice and commit funds to a long-term academic study, this would be beneficial to everyone. The most important aspect of a finding that it's on the human side of the tree--it might cause some of the trigger happy hunters who believe a specimen needs to be taken to think twice about killing one. The first rule that every hunter with any morals must abide by--you don't shoot anything unless you are positive you know what you're shooting, and, we don't know right now....

BIGFOOT BOOKS: Dave, those were great answers. And this has been a great interview. Thanks! I sincerely wish you the best, and hope you have further success in your bigfooting endeavors. I am hoping this interview will help make your Track Record CD known more widely, and that folks out there will realize the significance of it and what NABS has done in publishing it. 

---END OF INTERVIEW---
Read on for more, including ANGRY BIGFOOT SPEAKS!...

THE TRACK RECORD is available from NABS or on Amazon.com (just enter "track record bigfoot" in the Search box). List price is US$19.95. It is also available in-store or by email request from BIGFOOT BOOKS, in Willow Creek, CA.

 

DAVE PAULIDES' BIOGRAPHY, as entered on Amazon: "Dave Paulides received his undergraduate and graduate degrees from the University of San Francisco, and, has a professional background that includes twenty years in law enforcement and senior executive positions in the technology sector. In 2004 he formed North America Bigfoot Search (http://www.nabigfootsearch.com/) where his investigative and analytical experience were invaluable in researching Bigfoot/Sasquatch sightings, encounters and behavior. He spent two years living among the Hoopa tribal members, listening to and recording their Bigfoot stories. The Hoopa Project is his first book, based upon his experiences in the Bluff Creek area of Northern California. David's second book, Tribal Bigfoot is a quantum step forward in Bigfoot research and allows for a common sense understanding of this elusive biped. These two books have been called the new standard for crypto research."

Image above by Harvey Pratt, NABS' amazing forensic Bigfoot artist, from the NABS website.

THE NABS "ABOUT US" (from their web page): "North America Bigfoot Search (NABS) is a privately funded organization that had its start in Silicon Valley, California. A small group of technology executives had prior incidents in the woods of Northern California and dedicated resources for the research and investigation of the Biped. One significant difference between NABS and every other Bigfoot organization is our dedication to stay on a regional project until every possible angle of every sighting has been researched, witnesses interviewed, locations and food sources understood, and an extensive list of variables answered. Our organization will stay in a community sometimes for months/Years and thereby develop the trust, integrity and contacts to make our research valuable and enlightening. The organization is interested in all regions of North America and can have a researcher dispatched to a specific area in your state in hours. We do appreciate information on any Bigfoot sighting anywhere in the world. Our researchers and investigators have extensive experience in their specific field and may have knowledge about your area that is unique. Our ability to keep a researcher on site to develop that "unique" knowledge has assisted our organization in developing advanced techniques in gathering information. Our ability to communicate and align with all facets of government, business, academics and various levels of society make our field personnel an unusual commodity in Bigfoot circles. The researchers we field may be from any one of a variety of academic backgrounds, private industry and university adjunct positions. We pride ourselves in being professional, discrete and open to all ideas and feedback.

An article about The Hoopa Project appeared fairly recently HERE, in Humboldt County's local paper, The Times-Standard.

Go to the NABS website to find loads of interesting materials. Not just the Bigfoot Bulletin, but David Paulides' own blog, and many other great features abound there: http://www.nabigfootsearch.com/. Explore the sidebar to the left of the page--you won't be disappointed.

An article about Ray Crowe's interesting fictional book, The Bigfoot Bar & Grill: HERE. We have a rare copy of it available here at Bigfoot Books. There is a REAL Bigfoot Bar and Grill, in Salem, OR.

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ANGRY BIGFOOT SPEAKS!!!

"I quote human: 'Can't We All Just Get Along?' Bigfoot very angry. Too many humans think crazy human drama what really matters. Bigfoot hates human soap opera. Hate!!! Bigfoot says Ha Ha Ha! Human bigfooters argue, accuse each other of bad things, then they see blobsquatches, and Ha Ha! I get away into the forest. You never even smell me, not ever see me!"

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Interview rights reserved, copyright 2009, Steven Streufert, but may be used with permission and by all rights at least a citation and reference, and a link to this blog. The proprietor of Bigfoot Books bookshop, Steve sometimes does other things besides Bigfoot/Sasquatch... MySpace, Facebook, Email.

COMING UP, we hope (if all goes well)!: An interview with BIGFOOT TIMES publisher and editor, DANIEL PEREZ.
The Bald Hills Road and Klamath Trip, not to mention the Leap of Skepticism and Blobsquatching blog entries are on hold for now--there's just too much going on!